Posting this from Discord so we're all involved. Sorry it's spread out, but I don't have the time rn to clean it up.

8:44 PM] Roavin: @here

[8:44 PM] Roavin: http://pastebin.com/aLrYzuQr

Pastebin
Griffin - Today at 11:01 AM Hail. It's been quite a while so I w...



[8:44 PM] Roavin: Oops.



[8:47 PM] tsu: Oops to what



[8:48 PM] Roavin: Not necessarily an incriminating log but surely an interesting one.(edited)



[8:48 PM] tsu: Yeah.



[8:48 PM] tsu: I mean.



[8:48 PM] tsu: It's pretty incriminating.



[8:49 PM] Roavin: I wonder what "back channel" means



[8:50 PM] tsu: I mean, that is sarcastic, right Roa?



[8:51 PM] Roavin: It's not.



[8:51 PM] hierocles: Ugh this kind of situation is so frustrating.



[8:51 PM] Roavin: It could be "back channel" - somebody to talk to without going a public route



[8:51 PM] Roavin: Or "back channel" in a nefarious sense



[8:51 PM] Roavin: Obviously Bel will claim the former, and it's up to the CRS to determine if it may actually mean the latter



[8:51 PM] hierocles: The backchanneling would be talking privately with the Cabinet, mostly



[8:51 PM] hierocles: Can't really backchannel anywhere else



[8:53 PM] Roavin: Anyway, hope that's useful.



[8:53 PM] tsu: Bahahahahahahahahahahaha



[8:53 PM] tsu: ha



[8:53 PM] tsu: dick.



[8:54 PM] Roavin: ......



[8:54 PM] hierocles: Did Tsu accidentally type in the wrong tab?



[8:54 PM] Roavin: I think so....?



[8:55 PM] hierocles: Anyways, how'd you come about this log??



[8:56 PM] Roavin: I have my ways. ^_^



[9:02 PM] hierocles: It's worth noting that Bel basically went to him immediately after his ascension



[9:03 PM] Roavin: This is Nov 25th, 2016



[9:04 PM] hierocles: About a week after NK became delegate



[9:04 PM] Roavin: Though - NK reached out to Bel, not the other way around



[9:06 PM] tsu: Oh interesting.



[9:06 PM] Roavin: Though Bel then offered to do something in TSP



[9:06 PM] Roavin: The relevant snippet:



[9:06 PM] Roavin:
Belschaft - Today at 2:53 PM
Lol
That was a short retirement
Anything you want me to do in TSP? I'm not actually in the government these days
So if you want me to act as back channel you've got to let me know
Griffin - Today at 2:57 PM
As Heir Apparent I focused solely on domestic affairs so I'm unfamiliar with many of the neweer people. If you would keep an eye on things - any rumors that may be detrimental to Osiris, or any possible threats. I also want to reach out to TSP eventually, but I don't believe they would be receptive now. Peoeple still have Empire madness and I want to put that to rest.
Belschaft - Today at 3:00 PM
nods
Coolio
I can work to discourage any "Osiris bad, Empire bad" thinking
Griffin - Today at 3:04 PM
Thank you.





[9:07 PM] tsu: Yeah.  That doesn't sit well with me.



[9:07 PM] tsu: I mean, he's also essentially talking about who Osiris might we friendly with.



[9:07 PM] tsu: But



[9:07 PM] Roavin: Bel actually asking NK for orders in TSP, basically.



[9:09 PM] tsu: I mean, idk if it's orders per se.



[9:09 PM] tsu: Or like ... a discussion on moving TSP toward friendly relations with Os.



[9:09 PM] Farengeto: @Roavin Just to confirm, that Griffin isn't the TSP one, right?



[9:09 PM] Roavin: I mean



[9:10 PM] Roavin: Griffin = Neo Kervoskia



[9:10 PM] hierocles: Bel then runs for MoFA in the next general election, for context....



[9:10 PM] Roavin: "Anything I can do in TSP to help?" <-- that would be harmless
"Anything you want me to do in TSP?" <-- that's asking for orders



[9:11 PM] tsu: I mean.  I could just be phrasing.



[9:11 PM] Drugged Monkeys: Blew my phone up during an exam



[9:11 PM] tsu: Whoops  Sorry DM.



[9:11 PM] hierocles: It could be about better relations with Osiris, but the whole "discourage Empire bad" thinking says otherwise imo.... He knows the two are intertwined atm, which is why you have to push back against both anti-Osi and anti-Empire



[9:12 PM] Farengeto: I've had my phone go crazy from this during work. >.>



[9:12 PM] hierocles: Y'all set everything to mute like I do



[9:12 PM] tsu: I don't even have Discord on my phone, so I don't even think about it.



[9:12 PM] hierocles: Sometimes I doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion



[9:14 PM] Drugged Monkeys: Have to have the notifications, or I'll miss it



[9:15 PM] hierocles: That's commitment



[9:18 PM] Roavin: I'll let you know if I find out anything else!



[9:20 PM] Drugged Monkeys: I mean, I take it as Bel asking to assist NK with his agenda in TSP.



[9:20 PM] Drugged Monkeys: And then running for MoFA?



[9:20 PM] Drugged Monkeys: Wow



[9:21 PM] Farengeto: Well if the date is right he went for delegate even before that



[9:21 PM] Roavin: (including on improving Osi relations)



[9:23 PM] Farengeto: There's a legitimate concern here but short of declaring him a security threat (again) I'm not sure what our options are.



[9:26 PM] hierocles: I know I'm probably seen as the boy who cries wolf on this... BUT... there's no reason that shouldn't be on the table in general



[9:28 PM] Farengeto: I'm not ruling it out either. I'm not sure if this alone would be enough given the political outcry that would follow



[9:32 PM] hierocles: Could always write up a statement saying "This convo took place. Bel then ran on improving relations with Osi. Have fun"



[9:34 PM] tsu: Do you think its worth reaching out to NK?



[9:35 PM] tsu: I'm thinking asking him who he's working with in TSP



[9:35 PM] tsu: To see what he says



[9:35 PM] tsu: Tied in with the other threats of Os ... really this looks more serious



[9:39 PM] hierocles: He'd probably just demure, but if you want to, I suppose you can try. It might spook him, though? So if we think this looks actually serious, we'd have to be comfortable just having what we have so far, if people do get spooked



[9:40 PM] Drugged Monkeys: Court case for corruption?



[9:40 PM] tsu: We should probably post this on the forums.



[9:40 PM] hierocles: Ya



[9:41 PM] tsu: I'm not sure what's that in reference to Glen?



[9:41 PM] hierocles: You!



[9:41 PM] tsu: Oh.  Ok.



[9:41 PM] tsu: I didn't know if it was or what DM said.



[9:41 PM] hierocles: I'd have to study the criminal code for an opinion on any possible charges



[9:42 PM] Drugged Monkeys: Corruption shall be defined as the misuse of public office for private or personal advantage.



[9:42 PM] Drugged Monkeys: Meh.



[9:43 PM] tsu: Treason?



[9:43 PM] hierocles: Possibly, if we consider naming Empire a prohibited org to be a "defensive action"



[9:47 PM] tsu: Ok.  I must be off.  But I'll be looking to forward to seeing where this goes.


February 8, 2017



[12:38 AM] Farengeto: Speaking as the Justice with no opinion intended, reading the criminal code it occurs to me that if you wanted to drag up old issues an identity fraud case on Bel may not be unsubstantiated. (Most of our Criminal Code is unchanged from the previous Charter IIRC, so ex post facto doesn't apply to most crimes in the past couple years)



[12:41 AM] Farengeto: Speaking with more opinion, " plotting against the Coalition" counts under treason if you can prove this under that. "breaking the endorsement cap after receiving an official warning" if any of you have warned him about the endo cap at any point you can reasonably add that. Not saying we drag him into criminal court, but I'm saying the case might not be so far-fetched.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

(This post was last modified: 04-28-2017, 04:38 PM by sandaoguo.)

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So what're our preliminary ideas here? I don't think we should do anything until after elections, since I still have flashbacks to Comey's FBI letter.

But I definitely think we should put together a dossier on the old leaks and this new log. We don't have the legal authority to just declare security threats anymore (nobody does, actually!), so whatever is done has to either be done politically (aka through the Assembly) or through the courts. But a dossier would help the region decide.


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So what're our preliminary ideas here? I don't think we should do anything until after elections, since I still have flashbacks to Comey's FBI letter.

But I definitely think we should put together a dossier on the old leaks and this new log. We don't have the legal authority to just declare security threats anymore (nobody does, actually!), so whatever is done has to either be done politically (aka through the Assembly) or through the courts. But a dossier would help the region decide.


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I agree. I personally don't like this on top of everything else. A dossier would be good.

Are we going toward Osiris at large? Or ... what exactly?

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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My own opinion is that I don't trust Osiris government as a whole while NK is Delegate. The underlings there are totally innocent, I'm sure. But the top level guys I'm not cool with. And now Bel is reconfirming why I don't personally trust him.

Officially, it'd be .... provocative for the CRS to take that kind of stand on its own. Like I said when the other leaks came out, its gotta be with the Cabinet.

DM, I think, is supportive of that measure? Assuming Escade is elected, we'd just have to get ok.

For reference, the proposal I had was to blacklist Osiris top-level government. (Those who aren't already legislators here.) I think releasing a dossier will force the forum community to act. Not sure what direction they'd go in, at this point.

Ideally, what would your responses be if everything was on the table?


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It's a bit of a tough situation. Do we restrict all Osiris legislator application, or just a certain list of individuals?
I'm in agreement that we can't trust the Osiris Government with NK at the helm, but should that trickle down to the citizens? And if we do one or the other, what will be the reactions from the Osiris Government?
I personally think it will create an even more difficult task of weeding out who is who during the application process. They may be docile for now, or even moved on from the leaked discussions, but if we make the wrong move it could create a totally different issue.

It definitely has to be decided by the cabinet, but the CRS should provide them with a detailed opinion on the matter.

Semi-Unretired

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Well, there are two separate issues here we have to deal with:

1. Osiris under NK

2. Bel saying he'll work for Osiris+Empire's interests here, basically

For the first, my suggestion has been to blacklist Osiris's top brass, not *all* citizens. But the Cabinet would need to fully support that, because it's so entangled with FA and regional politics. It's smart security policy, but also a clear signal: we're prepared to take action against Empire in Osiris. It's tailored, but we leave room for more if the plan in the leaked logs moves forward anyways.

For the second, the only person in TSP that can remove a legislator/resident is the Permanent Justice. So from what I can see, the only thing we can really do is post a statement. There could be enough there to take it to court. But I don't know if it's smart for the CRS to bring charges. I'm torn on that, because it'd be the normal thing to do, but it's so politically complicated.


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(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017, 06:31 PM by sandaoguo.)

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Another thread we should be releasing.

Hello

Hello

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