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~~Cormac~~ · 02-28-2017, 06:10 AM

I think there's a solid case to be made that the Cabinet and/or the Council on Regional Security should request designation of The Black Hawks as a prohibited group under Section 4 of the Criminal Code. Consider the following:

The Black Hawks supported Milograd's April 2013 coup d'etat against the South Pacific. Mallorea and Riva was one of the three people who maintained Milograd's nation and purged natives of the South Pacific during the coup.
From 2011-13, Jakker posed as "Lemon Love" in Osiris, infiltrating their forum admin team and regional security institution (the Council of Ma'at), and eventually running for Pharaoh. He was discovered in the midst of the June 2013 Pharaoh election; had he not been discovered and won the election, he almost certainly would have staged a coup. Osiris was an ally of the South Pacific at the time.
In 2013, Mallorea and Riva was involved in training the military forces of Gatesville, the same year Gatesville supported Milograd's April coup here and then perpetrated a month long coup against Osiris in July, prompting the South Pacific to declare war against Gatesville.
As the Cabinet's recent statement announced, less than two weeks ago The Black Hawks staged an update operation to unseat Kowassati, Delegate of our ally Lazarus, by pushing a Guardian -- Loftegen -- into the Delegacy. The Black Hawks proceeded to encourage Loftegen to perpetrate an actual coup via Lazarus' RMB, while falsely accusing him of requesting their support for a coup in the midst of a Vice Delegate election in which he was a candidate. This constituted not only violation of Lazarus' sovereignty by unseating their Delegate, but also attempted incitement of an actual coup and attempted interference in and manipulation of their Vice Delegate election.
The lead in The Black Hawks' current invasion of the region Illuminati has 119 endorsements at the time of this post. A build-up of so many pilers usually indicates one thing: Plans to invade our ally, the Rejected Realms, by ejecting the pilers and moving to the Rejected Realms right before it updates. The Black Hawks deny that they plan to invade the Rejected Realms, but they're obviously not going to admit to it, as any admission of such plans would prompt allies and defenders to start piling to support the Rejected Realms immediately.

In light of The Black Hawks' recent history, which involves much more focus on the violation of Feeder and Sinker sovereignty than is typical for most raider regions, it seems pretty clear to me that they're a threat to the South Pacific for the same reasons Empire is a threat to the South Pacific. Give them a chance and they will overthrow a Feeder or Sinker government, whether for brief amusement or for more nefarious long-term ends. Adding our alliances with defender regions and the de facto defender-leaning orientation of the SPSF into the mix, the South Pacific is probably regarded by The Black Hawks as a target on par with Lazarus or the Rejected Realms. If they had no trouble assisting in the overthrow of our government in 2013 when the South Pacific was independent, uncomfortable with defender organizations, and allied with imperialists, they won't think twice now.

(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 06:19 AM by Cormac.)

Ryccia · 02-28-2017, 07:18 AM

Full support. Raider or not, this does not give you a free pass to undermine our sovereignty. This is a clear threat against all GCRs.

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Tim · 02-28-2017, 07:26 AM

I think, given The Black Hawks' consistently flippant regards for the sovereignty of our fellow Allied GCRs, this would be an appropriate measure. Their actions, especially given recent ones such as the destabilization attempt in Lazarus, say all that they need to say on the matter.

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(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 07:27 AM by Tim. Edit Reason: grammar )

Omega · 02-28-2017, 11:04 AM

I would strongly encourage the passage of this.

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***Tsunamy*** · 02-28-2017, 11:27 AM

This historically has been — and remains — my concern for such decrees: Do we have a list of who "The Black Hawks" are? Or will we be running around chasing shadows?

I simply fear that a blanket ban without having specifics would be this unenforceable.

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***Roavin*** · 02-28-2017, 11:35 AM

(02-28-2017, 11:27 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: This historically has been — and remains — my concern for such decrees: Do we have a list of who "The Black Hawks" are? Or will we be running around chasing shadows?

I simply fear that a blanket ban without having specifics would be this unenforceable.

Yes - contrary to the Empire, this is an actual GP organization with a roster and such: The Black Hawks

**Belschaft** · 02-28-2017, 11:39 AM

More importantly, do we have any TBH people here? Or looking like they would come here? Prohibited status was always intended for groups who's thing was joining a GCR and then f------ with it, not raiding.

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(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 01:03 PM by Tsunamy. Edit Reason: Cursing )

~~Cormac~~ · 02-28-2017, 11:45 AM

(02-28-2017, 11:39 AM)Belschaft Wrote: More importantly, do we have any TBH people here? Or looking like they would come here? Prohibited status was always intended for groups who's thing was joining a GCR and then f------ with it, not raiding.

Sygian, at least. If there are others I'm not aware of them, but there may be.

I'm pretty sure I've adequately demonstrated this isn't about raiding, Bel. The Black Hawks have a years long history of screwing with Feeders and Sinkers, including this one.

(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 01:03 PM by Tsunamy.)

**Belschaft** · 02-28-2017, 12:06 PM

No, what you demonstrated is that TBH are prepared to raid GCR's in-game and f--- with them. You haven't demonstrated that they join GCR's and subvert them from within, Empire/NPO/UDL style - which is what this legislation was designed for.

Designating TBH as a prohibited group wouldn't have any impact on what they do.

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(This post was last modified: 02-28-2017, 01:03 PM by Tsunamy.)

**Belschaft** · 02-28-2017, 12:10 PM

In addition to that, I don't believe that TBH meets any of the legal criteria for such status;

Quote:(2) For the purposes of this article, hostility shall constitute foreign regions or organizations that--
a. Were actively involved and complicit in an attempt, successful or otherwise, to illegally overthrow the legitimate government of The South Pacific;
b. Have coordinated efforts to directly exploit the elections or Assembly of The South Pacific;
c. Groups that have engaged in or have attempted to engage in coordinated espionage against The South Pacific government or military;
d. Groups that have or have attempted to sabotage The South Pacific's military operations.

The only one you could argue for is a., and then you have to reach back four years to do so.

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