Since I didn't realize this was a tradition and not legislated, I'd like to update the Regional Officers act to the following:
 

2. Regional Officers

(1) The in-game Delegate will be granted all Regional Officer powers.

(2) The Prime Minister will be granted all possible Regional Officer powers.

(2 3) The Minister of Foreign Affairs will be granted the Embassies power.

(3 4) The Minister of Regional Affairs will be granted the Appearance and Communications powers.

(4 5) Members of the Council on Regional Security will be granted the Border Control power.

(5 6) At least one member of the Local Council will be granted the Appearance, Communications, and Polls power.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

(This post was last modified: 12-20-2017, 08:57 PM by Nakari.)

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Against.

Do they really even need all powers? Every other role is intentionally given the minimum, and we barely have enough RO slots for our current positions.

They already can get most powers from executive discretion as well. The only things they can't get are BC (which I am opposed to) and Embassies (which I have no opinion on).

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It seems better to me to error on the side of less, not more. Granting the Prime Minister a few powers that they absolutely require, like Appearance and Communication, is certainly a good idea. I'd think the delegation of powers like Polls and Embassies should remain up to the discretion of the delegate - there's no real reason for the PM to have either, and thus not formalizing them as PM powers follows the existing precedent in regards to RO powers. As for Border Control, that is a power we only grant to our most trusted players, six or seven individuals consisting of the Delegate and the CRS. PM is an elected position, and to grant it absolute access to BC falls from away from the caution usually involved in granting this power. Again, I'd think the Delegate should be allowed to delegate this and any other RO power to the PM, but to grant all PMs all available powers is quite unnecessary.

Marius Rahl

Fortitudine Vincimus!

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It seems better to me to error on the side of less, not more. Granting the Prime Minister a few powers that they absolutely require, like Appearance and Communication, is certainly a good idea. I'd think the delegation of powers like Polls and Embassies should remain up to the discretion of the delegate - there's no real reason for the PM to have either, and thus not formalizing them as PM powers follows the existing precedent in regards to RO powers.

Appearance, Communication, and Polls can already be given out by Delegate discretion, so much of what you mention is already an option in ours laws.

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The Prime Minister, as the sort of "deputy for all ministers", should be granted the collective powers of cabinet ministers. This does not include Border Control - and that's okay, the Prime Minister doesn't need it. I haven't used the various powers (mostly I've just suppressed posts that violated the RMB Etiquette as established by the Local Council), though it's something that can reasonably come up.

I would add one bit though - the CRS should be allowed to ask the Delegate to grant or remove Border Control from nations as it sees fit. There are two specific use cases for this I can think of:

• A border control action needs to be performed that requires a significant amount of influence. The CRS could then, in order to save influence itself, ask a trusted non-CRS member (let's say Pencil Sharpeners 2) to perform that.
  
• A border control action needs to be performed close to the game-side update of our region, something which is ideally done by somebody from the SPSF (who, by definition, cannot be on the CRS), because SPSF Officers and above have an understanding of NationStates update timing and would know best when exactly to perform a certain action. There was a situation last term where it was considered between Cabinet+CRS to have me do that, actually, and though we ended up not doing that for a variety of reasons, it's still something that could come up.
  

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Against.

Do they really even need all powers? Every other role is intentionally given the minimum, and we barely have enough RO slots for our current positions.

They already can get most powers from executive discretion as well. The only things they can't get are BC (which I am opposed to) and Embassies (which I have no opinion on).

 

It seems better to me to error on the side of less, not more. Granting the Prime Minister a few powers that they absolutely require, like Appearance and Communication, is certainly a good idea. I'd think the delegation of powers like Polls and Embassies should remain up to the discretion of the delegate - there's no real reason for the PM to have either, and thus not formalizing them as PM powers follows the existing precedent in regards to RO powers. As for Border Control, that is a power we only grant to our most trusted players, six or seven individuals consisting of the Delegate and the CRS. PM is an elected position, and to grant it absolute access to BC falls from away from the caution usually involved in granting this power. Again, I'd think the Delegate should be allowed to delegate this and any other RO power to the PM, but to grant all PMs all available powers is quite unnecessary.

 

Against.

Do they really even need all powers? Every other role is intentionally given the minimum, and we barely have enough RO slots for our current positions.

They already can get most powers from executive discretion as well. The only things they can't get are BC (which I am opposed to) and Embassies (which I have no opinion on).

 

It seems better to me to error on the side of less, not more. Granting the Prime Minister a few powers that they absolutely require, like Appearance and Communication, is certainly a good idea. I'd think the delegation of powers like Polls and Embassies should remain up to the discretion of the delegate - there's no real reason for the PM to have either, and thus not formalizing them as PM powers follows the existing precedent in regards to RO powers. As for Border Control, that is a power we only grant to our most trusted players, six or seven individuals consisting of the Delegate and the CRS. PM is an elected position, and to grant it absolute access to BC falls from away from the caution usually involved in granting this power. Again, I'd think the Delegate should be allowed to delegate this and any other RO power to the PM, but to grant all PMs all available powers is quite unnecessary.

So, I must say I don't understand these attitudes. The Prime Minister is the official head of our government and yet the two of you are arguing that said person shouldn't be trusted and/or doesn't need the ability to communicate with the region.

And, I'm going to take issue with Roavin's statement that the Prime Minister is the deputy of all ministers — the Prime Minister is the leader of the ministers — not an afterthought as we're currently constructing it. 

If it comes down to the Prime Minister v. one of the other ministers or the Prime Minister v. an *additional* CRS member ... I think it's appropriate that the official head of out government gets an RO spot. Otherwise, the PM will be even more eclipsed by the delegate as the position frequently is now.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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And, I'm going to take issue with Roavin's statement that the Prime Minister is the deputy of all ministers — the Prime Minister is the leader of the ministers — not an afterthought as we're currently constructing it. 

I had put "deputy" in quotes intentionally - yes, the Prime Minister is the leader of the cabinet, and that's how it's supposed to be. However, as practiced by both DM and myself, the Prime Minister is also the one to step in if one of the Cabinet Ministers is on LoA, as the PM should be the one aware of all things that are happening, both with regards to the ministries themselves and the context in the Cabinet and Cabinet+CRS discussions, in a way that even a formally appointed deputy isn't.

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If we’ve already been giving the PM all these powers, I don’t see a reason to stop. The CRS usually coordinates with the Delegate and PM anyways when it comes to using BC powers.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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lol

plz
give Roavin Border Control 
i was just playing NS today and was checking out other people's nations and noticed he lost his 
How's he gnna ban spammers O.O

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I will support this if it comes to vote.

EDIT: I want to provide an explanation as to why I am supporting this.  I actually agree with some other legislators comments that it is kind of strange for the PM to have some of these powers because he is the head of our legislator.  But, I think it is ultimately important that he does have these powers in our dual system of PM / Delegate both serving as important heads of state.  When we split the roles, we did it under the understanding that we need to limit some powers of the delegate, and put those into the hands of the PM.  I think empowering the PM further and giving these powers to the PM will help give longevity to this system.

The 16th Delegate of The South Pacific

(This post was last modified: 11-22-2017, 10:00 AM by southern bellz.)

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