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**Belschaft** · 01-20-2018, 01:50 PM

This is a terrible, terrible idea. And it's me saying that.

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***Roavin*** · 01-20-2018, 02:02 PM

I also agree that it's a bad idea. That being said, @North Prarie, I do appreciate that you're participating in the process and thinking of ways to improve TSP, and I encourage you to keep at it Smile

North Prarie · 01-20-2018, 03:19 PM

How is it a bad idea?

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Volaworand · 01-20-2018, 03:54 PM

I love the idea of encouraging activity on gameside, but am not sure this is the way to do it. We have plenty of checks and balances. It's not a positive sign that government officials don't keep an ear to the ground in the gameside forums, however legislation requiring them to provide the appearance of intrest isn't the same.

It's our job as voters on gameside to support people who are active there.

Is this a response to a local councilor that rarely interacts with anyone on the RMB? I think this can better be addressed at the ballot box, as opposed as through legislation. Or we could start a game side "where in the world is my local councilor?" game... that could be fun. if it became a serious problem, a recall campaign might be more effective? Imagine a situation where all three local council members ignored the RMB... that wouldn't be pretty.

On a positive note as a gameside native, PS2 joining the CRS is evidence that gameside really is part of the region, even though there was concerns about his activity on the "forumside" although that may be more a part of the nature of that role.

As far as the three ministries and the PM, I think all of them are doing a good job of at least keeping gameside informed when they can, and that 3/4th of them would qualify as active gamesiders in their own right anyway, and that legislating how they should enjoy their gameplay isn't in anyone's interest as this would just discourage people being involved in the office.

Anyway, I think we in TSP have a great union of the two sides of the community, and that this can be encouraged and improved through personal interactions, not this legislation (at least not yet).

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(This post was last modified: 01-20-2018, 04:03 PM by Volaworand.)

Pencil Sharpeners · 01-20-2018, 04:42 PM

Given that the RMB is the first port of call for many new nations in TSP, I believe it would be beneficial for ministers to be active there, for recruitment purposes if nothing else. Having said that, I think that forcing ministers to post there wouldn't really help things. If a minister really doesn't want to use the RMB, I highly doubt their forced activity there would be particularly productive.

It's possible that there might be a way to encourage Ministers to be more active gameside, but really it has to be a positive thing which makes them want to do it.

Did some LC, MoRA, CRS stuff in the past. Do a lot of World Census stuff now.

***sandaoguo*** · 01-20-2018, 07:14 PM

(01-20-2018, 03:19 PM)North Prarie Wrote: How is it a bad idea?

I think it's basically a question of politics that shouldn't be legislated. If you personally feel that a Cabinet minister should be active on the RMB, then that's the way you should vote in our elections every 4 months. Trying to legislate interest isn't possible. If you look at what kind of talk happens on the RMB vs on the forums, we're two very different group of people in that sense.

RMBers aren't banned from having a greater voice in forum government-- they simply need to join the forums, if they're interested in it. In that same way, forum people aren't banned from having a say in RMB governance-- we simply have to run for the Local Council. In neither case is one group legally forced to be interested in playing the other group's type of game. We've worked hard to ensure that the forum doesn't oppress the RMB, and that the RMB doesn't try to topple the forum community that has existed in TSP for over a decade. (This is often forgotten in these debates, but the government game we're playing right now was invented by TSP's forum community!) On the flip side, we've also worked hard to make it easy for people to try out both sides of TSP.

By trying to force forum officials to be active on the RMB, you're essentially saying that the RMB is supreme and superior. That's especially so, if you aren't also saying that anybody who has power on the RMB must join and be active on the forums. The Charter puts it this way: "Authority and legitimacy is held jointly by the region and the forum, and the union between the two is what defines the Coalition." One is not better than the other. We're a union, and the way we have organized that is by ensuring that the two communities of TSP have their own responsible governments.

North Prarie · 01-20-2018, 07:40 PM

I will use Delegate elections as an example. A RMBer has to go forumside. A forumsider does not have to go gameside. There are many things that show that people actually think that the forums are superior, and the purpose is to make those equal.

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Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister

***sandaoguo*** · 01-20-2018, 07:43 PM

(01-20-2018, 07:40 PM)North Prarie Wrote: I will use Delegate elections as an example. A RMBer has to go forumside. A forumsider does not have to go gameside. There are many things that show that people actually think that the forums are superior, and the purpose is to make those equal.

An RMBer come to the forum if they are interested in doing so. It's not difficult and there are little to no barriers. Additionally, the final decision of who becomes Delegate is done via regional poll!

You cannot make something equal by forcing fealty.

(This post was last modified: 01-20-2018, 07:44 PM by sandaoguo.)

**Pronoun** · 01-20-2018, 11:30 PM

(01-19-2018, 07:51 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: [...] First, it’s a violation of the federalism principles in the Charter— the forum and the game side are two equal communities, with their own responsible governing bodies. [...]

(01-20-2018, 07:43 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: [...] You cannot make something equal by forcing fealty. [...]

I have been under the impression that the gameside and forumside are already two equal communities.

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***sandaoguo*** · 01-21-2018, 10:09 AM

Yes, they are. People are under the mistaken idea that they aren’t, so we need to force forum officials to show fealty to the RMB.

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