| GP Decorum, Strategy, Talking Points |
Earlier today, I wrote on Discord:
[2:42 AM] Roavin: @Cabinet Ministers Starting now until further notice, no GP posting. We have some things we need to discuss first. Crass? Maybe, but all four of us are GP-posting regulars and this wasn't unprompted. We need to have a serious discussion here, for a variety of reasons. First, For all the shit we (rightfully) give Balder about Rach's non-executive position still meaning her words mean something, we're really not doing a great job of keeping decorum as actual executives in this region. If there's something we have to pass off as an opinion, we can preface it accordingly, but even then, the fact is that a post by an executive official will be seen as somewhat reflective if we want it or not. Second, we should never, ever throw fellow Cabinet members under the bus on GP. Ever. Our message should, nay must, be clear and consistent. I have been approached at several points by several people about our rhetoric. Most poignant, however, was last night by August, founder of ally Conch Kingdom and all around a very reasonable guy. I'll just quote the relevant parts verbatim: First of all, the Francoist rhetoric is putting a nasty taste in my mouth. It seems so uncharacteristic of officials from a democratic state to cite PFT and talk ceaselessly about userites and subversion. I have read what you wrote about the subject. "Userite" does not refer to all players from UCRs, the term is great for propaganda, etc. Still, the connotation is very different from the denotation, and the rhetoric is being thrown around a lot these days to dismiss or criticize the words and actions of players from UCRs. I expect this from a few people. I am very surprised to see TSP officials taking part. The other thing that gives me concern is the... well, I am not even sure what to call it without being insulting, and again, I am trying to give the benefit of the doubt here. There have been some truly bewildering posts from certain TSP residents and officials, addressed to high-ranking officials from other regions. These posts contain creative logic, accusations, apparent mis-characterizations of past events... it does not reflect well. [...] I have to say, it feels really uncomfortable to read an argument thread and side with Europeia over TSP at every turn. I cannot remember that happening before. (Obviously, I am not going to say anything in public.) I can't help but agree with August here. The Francoist thing was fun for a while and fine to do, but I've been thinking that the meme has outlived its comedic value well before August wrote me, and that just further solidified my thinking on it. On August's second point, I don't think I need to say much. Third, our message isn't consistent. We have certain talking points that have evolved organically (for example Lazarus being griefed), but it's not a coordinated measure and if we want to have an effective GP presence. The imps will mock us regardless, and I'm sure none of us care even one bit about that, but this is also affecting non-imps and people we do want to be friendly with. Now. All four of us want to post on GP. I don't want us to be silent there, either. A good solid presence goes a long way. One of the few things I agree on with Onder is that the point of GP isn't to convince the elites of the other side, but rather to offer a counter-point to enemy propaganda so that it's not taken as gospel and ones own views are unrepresented. So let's figure something out.
![[Image: XXPV74Y.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/XXPV74Y.png?1)
I mean we keep circling around this issue but if you look at the TSP Embassy over the past few years its as Tim described a salt catcher. We can't post about a damn festival without our enemies trying to derail it into a salt show. The constant barrage of attacks are unabated and if you counter attack, then the attackers cry.
It's very simple to me, we don't need to always address each attacker but also can't ignore them all because that's the voice that gets read then. I do agree about cabinet solidarity but I don't think Somy, with his "alternate" facts is going to be defending TSP from attacks so there's that.  I've already tried to explain about the whole you discuss with your team in private but that hasn't worked and I don't think we're on the same team. Players who are on the same team usually coordinate, like Euro coordinated that attack in the embassy thread. As for Europeia, the problem isn't the arguments as much as their side is vocal and coordinated and ours is not. Sopo was involved with the attempted coup of TSP. WritingLegend ended relations with TSP and attempted to use the Lazarus\Balder sphere rumors about Roavin until forced to provide proof and then went a different route. HEM is allowed as a former and inactive citizen of a region to criticize but can't deal with the criticism of his own region. Which audience then are you attempting to reach? Which faction is willing to side with us or willing to stand up for us? There is as Cormac said one dominant side and the rest of the undercats and cats don't really get herded together. If you can make it happen though, Roavin I would be willing to try. On the other hand, I do not forget the people who've wronged my region in one way or the other ever. This also I think majorly covers Embassies and the like rather than random GP posting. Finally, many of the issues being brought up aren't brought up when the other side engages in that type of rhetoric. I don't see Solorni censored for it but rather rewarded, so it's all perspective. Quite possibly what might be key here is becoming more like that. Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
Fair warning, I haven't been really caught up on what's going on in GP. But, I think some designated talking points might go a long way to helping us combat the smears of other regions.
Our current situation of making it an "anything goes" type of thing hasn't been really fruitful. Maybe drafting a few "talking points" and circulating them to the Cabinet and other trusted people who are part of GP (Glen, Kris and maybe even Bel, for instance) might be a useful way for us to counter what amounts to a coordinated push from the Balder-sphere.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(04-21-2018, 12:16 PM)Escade Wrote: I mean we keep circling around this issue but if you look at the TSP Embassy over the past few years its as Tim described a salt catcher. We can't post about a damn festival without our enemies trying to derail it into a salt show. The constant barrage of attacks are unabated and if you counter attack, then the attackers cry. I think we all agree on this point. (04-21-2018, 12:16 PM)Escade Wrote: I do agree about cabinet solidarity but I don't think Somy, with his "alternate" facts is going to be defending TSP from attacks so there's that. You don't like Somy. Somy doesn't like you. Whatever. I really don't care. What I expect is that you two work together. That means I expect you to not throw BS accusations his way whenever convenient (and I saw what you wrote before your edit), and I expect him to not throw you under the bus whenever convenient. We are on a team - The Cabinet, together, Team TSP. Is it too much to demand that you start acting like it? (04-21-2018, 12:16 PM)Escade Wrote: As for Europeia, the problem isn't the arguments as much as their side is vocal and coordinated and ours is not. Sopo was involved with the attempted coup of TSP. WritingLegend ended relations with TSP and attempted to use the Lazarus\Balder sphere rumors about Roavin until forced to provide proof and then went a different route. HEM is allowed as a former and inactive citizen of a region to criticize but can't deal with the criticism of his own region. HEM wasn't bothered by the criticism, he was bothered by the decorum - basically, what this thread is about. We have more than enough reasons to hate on Balder and (to a much lesser degree) Euro, and nobody is saying we shouldn't. But there's a difference between making decently-articulated points about our issues, which every single one of us is capable of, versus the insane stream-of-consciousness rants and/or weaponized salt mine barrages. I am bothered by the decorum. I've been bothered since last year, even. I've gotten increasingly bothered in the past week. August writing to me was the straw that finally broke the camel's back (and honestly, I should have done this a LONG time ago). (04-21-2018, 12:16 PM)Escade Wrote: Which audience then are you attempting to reach? Which faction is willing to side with us or willing to stand up for us? You answered this yourself in your first paragraph. (04-21-2018, 12:16 PM)Escade Wrote: There is as Cormac said one dominant side and the rest of the undercats and cats don't really get herded together. If you can make it happen though, Roavin I would be willing to try. On the other hand, I do not forget the people who've wronged my region in one way or the other ever. Yeah and I also am bothered whenever I see Souls post but with one exception I keep it bottled up and filtered appropriately. (04-21-2018, 12:16 PM)Escade Wrote: Finally, many of the issues being brought up aren't brought up when the other side engages in that type of rhetoric. I don't see Solorni censored for it but rather rewarded, so it's all perspective. Quite possibly what might be key here is becoming more like that. Solorni is a baiting troll who gets away with it for reasons I don't want to elaborate on here. She shouldn't be taken as the measure of things. And no. We should not be more like Solorni. I don't even want that thought considered for even a second.
I guess I don't know what decorum is because I haven't experienced it. Pray do explain.
I don't care what Somy does, in most cases he jumps in to the fray. Want me to be a member of the team? Start realizing that this is NSGP. Players don't play by rules of etiquette, and there are countless times I've been attacked unprovoked and in seriously shitty ways and fended for myself. Where's the outrage over that? There isn't any? Oh, I guess there are no rules. "Insane stream of consciousness" cool, that's part of my style. You can take it or leave it. If you can't even do anything about the fact that any post in TSP will get some sort of salt then perhaps I'm not sure what the goal is here. Also Tsu, that would make sense... Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
If someone on the Cabinet has an issue with the stuff I'm saying publicly in my role as Foreign Minister, I fully expect them to at the very least bring it up in private. If we want to talk about decorum, it's pretty fucking poor decorum to go disagreeing with your fellow Cabinet members in public, and especially in NSGP, without making any comment in the Cabinet Office about it first.
I agree, talking points would be good. Also, the only thing Europeia is actually bothered by is their fragile sensibilities being insulted. Their brigading reflects nothing more than that, and the fact that they have their unified front a lot more put together than some members of this cabinet and region.
(04-21-2018, 02:51 PM)Escade Wrote: I guess I don't know what decorum is because I haven't experienced it. Pray do explain. I dunno. How about the vast majority of people in executive positions in regions posting on GP? (04-21-2018, 02:51 PM)Escade Wrote: I don't care what Somy does, in most cases he jumps in to the fray. And it's better for me? Or Tim, who's been at it and being shit on in GP for longer than the two of us together, for that matter? Come on. I don't want you to be a member of the team. I expect you to be one. If this is not achievable, we will need to look at other options. (04-21-2018, 02:51 PM)Escade Wrote: "Insane stream of consciousness" cool, that's part of my style. You can take it or leave it. I'll take the option to leave it, then. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the insane stream, but there's a time and place for everything and too often when it comes out on GP, it's not the time or place. (04-21-2018, 02:51 PM)Escade Wrote: If you can't even do anything about the fact that any post in TSP will get some sort of salt then perhaps I'm not sure what the goal is here. The salt will be there regardless. Don't care. I do care about our allies, and if they are concerned enough to actually reach out, then there is cause to think about it - are they overreacting, or are we doing something less than ideal? Considering that I've had several of the thoughts August expressed myself beforehand, I'm in the latter camp in this case. (04-21-2018, 03:19 PM)Tim Wrote: If someone on the Cabinet has an issue with the stuff I'm saying publicly in my role as Foreign Minister, I fully expect them to at the very least bring it up in private. I've been the least worried about you, which is why I haven't needed to. Escade's had me annoy her in DMs for a year. Somy got yelled at the previous time he did this in #cabinet-office. (04-21-2018, 03:19 PM)Tim Wrote: Also, the only thing Europeia is actually bothered by is their fragile sensibilities being insulted. Their brigading reflects nothing more than that, and the fact that they have their unified front a lot more put together than some members of this cabinet and region. Agreed.
Talking points? Tim wanted to prep some.
I guess we should start by making a list of things like:
1. Things we routinely get attacked on and potential responses 2. Our stances on recent major issues\situations These don't have to be conformity stamps or anything more like, "If you aren't sure how to respond but feel the pressing need to do so, this is how or use this for inspiration." Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
(05-20-2018, 06:40 PM)Escade Wrote: I guess we should start by making a list of things like: Exactly my thought! So right now, we'd have something on (1) corrupt forum admins, because that always comes up (2) Lazarus peacekeeping efforts (3) Maaaaybe the NSWF Imki thing? Not sure if there's anything relevant that's topical.
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