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**Beepee** · 07-15-2018, 08:20 PM

Can I ask a question about 3.

(3) No Regional Officer may use their powers to campaign for or against any candidate for office.

Can i ask someone to explain what's meant/ envisaged by this. I am struggling to get my head around the wording and limits/exceptions that could be claimed.

Check my links.....

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https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1086117

Tim · 07-15-2018, 09:28 PM

(07-15-2018, 08:20 PM)Beepee Wrote: Can I ask a question about 3.

(3) No Regional Officer may use their powers to campaign for or against any candidate for office.

Can i ask someone to explain what's meant/ envisaged by this. I am struggling to get my head around the wording and limits/exceptions that could be claimed.

Since Regional Officers have Communications powers, they could automatically TG the whole region for free via that. This would prevent them from abusing their RO power for election-based purposes, though I doubt anyone would seriously have the gall to even try that.

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~~Yuno~~ · 07-16-2018, 12:13 AM

I 100% support your amendment ^_^

I have some comments, not disagreements (well, if you see a disagreement it's mild):

Code:
"(5) No foreign person may engage in electioneering for or against any candidate within The South Pacific, or enter The South Pacific for this purpose, nor may any foreign embassy post any message on the Regional Message Board related to any political campaign."

Most GCR delegates know to back off now. Queen Yuno does not plan to make any more comments after getting chided by Tsu on RMB, and Zaolat was just joking about campaigning for Glen, and no one else has been posting. So this situation is not as bad as you make it sound. In fact, I don't think it's NEEDED.

Still, I agree with the amendment for the most part; the only bit that's shady to me is "enter for this purpose" because some newcomers could be commenting on the elections as a side-hobby while prioritizing doing other TSP stuff; AND this clause has already been covered in a different TSP law.

But other than that, full support!
Good luck ^^

(This post was last modified: 07-16-2018, 12:15 AM by Yuno.)

***sandaoguo*** · 07-16-2018, 09:34 AM

It’s clearly needed, as it did happen. The cat is out of the bag and can’t be put back in. It doesn’t really matter if you personally understand not to do it again— you aren’t the only Delegate with cross-posting permissions! And future ROs in other regions may not learn the lesson.

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***Tsunamy*** · 07-16-2018, 10:14 AM

So, I think the question is whether or not a candidate is courting outside support.

I don't want to get into deep into a side tangent about this particular instance, but I snapped at Yuno because I was annoyed at the framing of the discussion, took a good deal of personal offense and didn't step away from the keyboard when I should've. I don't think she was actually trying to sway the election and my off-handed, ill-advised and not very serious accusation got blown up due to outside forces. (Relatedly, and just to be clear, I don't think Tim prompted any of the comments that were being posted.)

All this being said, if Yuno had a question about the election, would we want her to be forced to bit her tongue?

Is there some way we can thread a needle to welcome constructive input while stopping outright propaganda?

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

***sandaoguo*** · 07-16-2018, 12:01 PM

Well, Yuno is a legislator and should’ve posted using her TSP nation, not via the TEP embassy. Posting via the embassy was a poor choice, because it gives the impression of undue foreign influence. I think Yuno understands that and is genuinely sorry for the mistake. But that doesn’t stop others from doing the same thing, and we’ve all seen how much NSGP types care about custom or appearances when it comes to TSP.

If a non-TSPer has a technical question about our elections, they can TG the person running them, or their friends here or whatever, and get an answer privately. But if their “question” is just thinly-veiled advocacy for or opposition to a candidate, that’s electioneering. Asking a technical question isn’t electioneering, and would thus be allowed under the bill as written, though I don’t see any valid reason why a non-TSP Gameplay type would hop on our RMB to ask an election-related question when they have other less potentially problematic ways to ask us questions.

Non-TSPers, particularly regional officials, can make as many posts and statements they want about our elections... in their own venues. Doing it on the forums or the RMB is just straight up meddling.

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(This post was last modified: 07-16-2018, 12:03 PM by sandaoguo.)

**Belschaft** · 07-16-2018, 03:18 PM

For those of us who are don’t used Discord much (or at all) can someone provide a summary of the issues raised there, including what Yuno and Zaolat did.

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The Sakhalinsk Empire · 07-17-2018, 02:12 AM

(07-16-2018, 03:18 PM)Belschaft Wrote: For those of us who are don’t used Discord much (or at all) can someone provide a summary of the issues raised there, including what Yuno and Zaolat did.

I agree. Due to my ISP blocking it, I can't use discord. I get the general idea on what has happened but a more specific account on what occurred is better.

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**Beepee** · 07-17-2018, 08:36 AM

(07-15-2018, 09:28 PM)Tim Wrote:
(07-15-2018, 08:20 PM)Beepee Wrote: Can I ask a question about 3.

(3) No Regional Officer may use their powers to campaign for or against any candidate for office.

Can i ask someone to explain what's meant/ envisaged by this. I am struggling to get my head around the wording and limits/exceptions that could be claimed.

Since Regional Officers have Communications powers, they could automatically TG the whole region for free via that. This would prevent them from abusing their RO power for election-based purposes, though I doubt anyone would seriously have the gall to even try that.

Thanks so much Tim.

If that's what was meant by Section 3 would that not be covered by Section 2 (mass telegrams) anyway? is section 3 necessary?

Check my links.....

SWAN 4 Life
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1086117

***Tsunamy*** · 07-17-2018, 09:48 AM

(07-16-2018, 03:18 PM)Belschaft Wrote: For those of us who are don’t used Discord much (or at all) can someone provide a summary of the issues raised there, including what Yuno and Zaolat did.

It wasn't really on Discord -- it happened on the RMB. There was a discussion about how I've been delegate several times and Tim was new blood in the region. Yuno crossposted from her nation in TEP and I snapped a bit at her for it and accused TEP of having a preference.

While it wasn't a serious accusation, when Yuno responded the next day, it got picked up in other places, namely by Cormac in NSGP (and I'm assuming) from there came a deluge of people posting on the RMB through the embassies.

I'm not sure if other things happened on Discord or if people were just reading the forums, but the delegate of TRR began to attack Glen as essentially accusing people of electioneering.

That's my read/knowledge of it. If someone else has more details, please fill me in as well.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]