If, with the following changes, there are no more concerns then motion to vote.
 

Amendment to Article 3

(5) Any delegate candidates that have made it to the gameside voting process must resign any and all political offices or positions of influence and/or leadership, outside of the South Pacific, in any region or organization, excluding citizenship and apolitical founder positions. In addition, no positions may be pursued or accepted while concurrently holding office in TSP. In the event that the delegate is found to be in breach of this understanding, they will be recalled and an election will take place as soon as possible.

Amendment to Article 4

(4) The incoming Prime Minister and cabinet members must resign any and all political offices or positions of influence and/or leadership, outside of the South Pacific, in any region or organization, excluding citizenship and apolitical founder positions. In addition, no positions may be pursued or accepted while concurrently holding office in TSP. In the event that the Prime Minister or any cabinet member is found to be in breach of this understanding, they will be recalled and an election will take place as soon as possible.

Amendment to Article 5

(5) The incoming Chair of the Assembly must resign any and all political offices or positions of influence and/or leadership, outside of the South Pacific, in any region or organization, excluding citizenship and apolitical founder positions. In addition, no positions may be pursued or accepted while concurrently holding office in TSP. In the event that the Chair of Assembly is found to be in breach of this understanding, they will be recalled and an election will take place as soon as possible. 

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
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Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
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(This post was last modified: 08-03-2018, 02:36 AM by Escade.)

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I've got several issues with this draft, and I think it just goes a bit far in general.

Firstly, the usage of "incoming" adds some loopholes. In a short-term example, it can be read as exempting current office holders.

I also have issues the positions are defined. The description is rather broad and vague. To give a personal example, my role in the RP region Selene as a member of its "Privy Council". It's basically entirely a roleplaying advisor role with no real political or foreign involvement. But its status as part of effectively the region's government can make it still be read as a political office and claimed to fall under the label of being of influence and/or leadership.

Now presumably we don't want to ban people from doing RP stuff, as long as it doesn't interfere with their work of course. And if we did intend to ban it, from my end the line becomes odd and a rabbit hole since I have a nearly identical role in a different RP entirely separate from NS.

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Also, if we do do something like that (and I don't think we should), I'd prefer the language to be on the books only once and applies to all the positions mentioned, rather than being triplicated as above.

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I've got several issues with this draft, and I think it just goes a bit far in general.

Firstly, the usage of "incoming" adds some loopholes. In a short-term example, it can be read as exempting current office holders.

I also have issues the positions are defined. The description is rather broad and vague. To give a personal example, my role in the RP region Selene as a member of its "Privy Council". It's basically entirely a roleplaying advisor role with no real political or foreign involvement. But its status as part of effectively the region's government can make it still be read as a political office and claimed to fall under the label of being of influence and/or leadership.

Now presumably we don't want to ban people from doing RP stuff, as long as it doesn't interfere with their work of course. And if we did intend to ban it, from my end the line becomes odd and a rabbit hole since I have a nearly identical role in a different RP entirely separate from NS.

Considering you couldn't be bothered to respond to issues with your own proposed law, I find your concerns as relevant as you have found those of your constituents. 

Then, it seems like perhaps people with less roles might actually do their jobs within the region. So thanks for proving my point.

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
Delegate | Vice Delegate 
Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
~ The Sparkly One ~

My Pinterest

 

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Considering you couldn't be bothered to respond to issues with your own proposed law, I find your concerns as relevant as you have found those of your constituents. 

Then, it seems like perhaps people with less roles might actually do their jobs within the region. So thanks for proving my point.

First, not everyone has to propose a new draft when they have issues with your draft. That's not how this "debate" thing works.

Second, I agree with Far. In theory, this bill idea makes sense, but in practice, it'll limit our already limited pool. If something like this does get done, I'd like to see some softer requirements.

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Considering you couldn't be bothered to respond to issues with your own proposed law, I find your concerns as relevant as you have found those of your constituents. 

Then, it seems like perhaps people with less roles might actually do their jobs within the region. So thanks for proving my point.

First, not everyone has to propose a new draft when they have issues with your draft. That's not how this "debate" thing works.

Second, I agree with Far. In theory, this bill idea makes sense, but in practice, it'll limit our already limited pool. If something like this does get done, I'd like to see some softer requirements.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk  

I'm referring to his lack of response after proposing a bill (the delegate bill) to any of the people who asked questions about it. His lack of communication skills in general and his disappearing on the job are an issue that we've seen since he was Chair of Assembly. Perhaps, if he had less roles he could perform at just one adequately. 

Narrowing the pool seems to be the goal with the bill he proposed regarding the delegacy, this narrows it a particular way that is applicable to all positions.  Considering the latest ragequit, this seems to not narrow the pool but weed out the inactive, whiny, and incompetent. I'm open to hearing what you think are softer requirements.

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
Delegate | Vice Delegate 
Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
~ The Sparkly One ~

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(This post was last modified: 08-09-2018, 02:11 AM by Escade.)

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... and apolitical founder positions ...

What if the foundership is political by nature of the region?

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I'm referring to his lack of response after proposing a bill (the delegate bill) to any of the people who asked questions about it.

You seem to be mistaken, seeing as I didn't propose the bill you seem to be referring to. I started a discussion thread on the matter, but the bill was proposed and written by others.

First, not everyone has to propose a new draft when they have issues with your draft. That's not how this "debate" thing works.

Second, I agree with Far. In theory, this bill idea makes sense, but in practice, it'll limit our already limited pool. If something like this does get done, I'd like to see some softer requirements.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

As expressed in my previous post I feel the terms are simply too broad and vague. As a more exaggerated example, can purely ceremonial roles and titles be considered "positions of influence"? Do general non-political technical roles fall under this law? It specifies apolitical founder roles, but what counts as that and if judged so what options does the individual have besides resigning office? The court has previously ruled against making judgements about the positions in other regions, so I'm not sure if relying too heavily on it here is feasible.

I also forgot about the matter of enforcement before. The proposal seems to describe immediate removal from office, but who determines where this is an issue? Is the requirement to resign all other offices immediate, or is there leniency for transition? When it says recalled is it automatic, or do we just do a normal recall vote?

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It seems other acts are being brought up to vote, often without a second or the author being interested in it, while the Chair ignores this one. How interesting.  I'd like to motion this to vote.

Escade

~ Positions Held in TSP ~
Delegate | Vice Delegate 
Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs
~ The Sparkly One ~

My Pinterest

 

(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018, 12:04 AM by Escade.)

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It seems other acts are being brought up to vote, often without a second or the author being interested in it, while the Chair ignores this one. How interesting.  I'd like to motion this to vote.

What's so interesting about it?

Your draft from July 23 was motioned by yourself and seconded by siames. Since debate then continued, the vote was reasonably delayed. You then offered further changes on August 3, which you immediately motioned to vote. Since you made a new draft and motioned that, without mentioning that you intended there to be a conflicting bill procedure, the motion on your original draft was considered withdrawn. Your second draft was not seconded.

If you mean to imply that I'm biased in what I bring to vote, I urge you to look at my vote here.

(This post was last modified: 08-17-2018, 12:58 AM by Roavin.)

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