Can I see these experts? Surely there must be links for them.


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(05-08-2016, 09:05 AM)Punchwood Wrote:

(05-07-2016, 08:55 PM)Resentine Wrote: "Hillary has a better plan to get money out of politics".

And Ted Cruz is actually the Zodiac Killer.

Eh yes actually. Expects are saying that her plan to keep Wall Street accountable is stronger than Sanders and that's his core issue (his only issue). She wants to overturn Citizens United. Just because all Sanders talks about is wall street, money in politics and big banks doesn't mean he is the best guy for the job. Apart on that on issue Sanders can't talk about anything else ok. This election is about more than getting money out of politics, it's about foreign policy, healthcare, the economy, the environment, guns, race, terrorism, immigration, education. And when you hear Sanders talk about things like foreign policy he stumbles, unless he is talking about his main issue he is an old 74 year old man who you guys want as President. You really think he can stand up to Putin and all the other world leaders? Sanders is a nice protest vote but give him any position of power and he crumbles.

I've already explained to you about how he isn't a one issue candidate, but, you still seem to have the idea that he isn't. I will again direct you to the Bernie Sanders page to actually look up his position on issues before you continue to make points about things you clearly haven't bothered to research.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/

Also, if your "experts" honestly believe that Clinton has a stronger plan to take on money in politics while being to one taking money from the people who DON'T want money out of politics, they are all idiots, and should be fired immediately. I'm serious. ANY of my Political Science or Economics professors would have a massive laugh at that.

Bernie has always been against SuperPACs and the Citizen's United decision, and private funding of elections. In fact, just over a year ago he proposed a constitutional amendment to ban SuperPACs and big money in politics(4 months before he even planned on running for president). You really can't get much stronger on money in politics than that.

Bernie Proposes a Constitutional Amendment to end CU: http://www.politicususa.com/2015/01/21/b...nited.html

As for stumbling on Foriegn policy, how so? Because last I recall, he called out HRC for being very far on the right when it came to Israel, and arguing for a fair approach with Palestinians (as opposed to pro-Israel all the time, which saying otherwise is Taboo for American politicians, and something that he absolutely beat Clinton on in the last debate if you actually watched it) Or do you mean his non-interventionist policies, like how he doesn't believe in getting involved in countries like Iraq for the sake of them being a "business opportunity"(something Clinton said back in 2011 on Iraq). And of course Bernie would be able to take on Putin. He still believes in NATO(unlike Trump), but he also believes in Diplomacy first, which means you have to at least try to sit down and resolve things first before anyone starts killing eachother. And besides, we already hashed this point out about 20 pages back, where I proved to you that he both isn't a one issue candidate and that he has a good Foriegn policy(unlike Clinton who has almost constantly said "I'm sorry about my past mistakes but I'll keep repeating them".)

On the Enviroment: Bernie is absolutely stronger on the Enviroment than Hillary and I've never seen him in a position where he doesn't know what he's talking about on it(debates or otherwise, so I don't know where you've gotten that idea from). Bernie believes we need to end the use of fossil fuels as a source of energy immediately, beginning a transition to clean energy sources to protect our planet from any further harm. Hillary Clinton, on the other hand, has advocated for "incremental" change, believing we need to transit to Green Energy over a long period of time(I believe her last mentioned time span was 30? years, but, she could've pandered lower to a new number since). Bernie has also argued ending America's use of Nuclear Power, and while he understands that nuclear power does last for a long time in comparison to fossil fuels, the Enviromental damage they cause due to radiation due to either accidents or leaks is too high of a risk(something HRC has disagreed with him on).

Bernie on the Enviroment: http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_S...nment.html

Education: Are you kidding me? You think he's weak on EDUCATION. Literally the of the OTHER 3 issues that has led to his claim to fame? Honestly, what you said had better be sarcasm, because trying to say that Bernie is weak or has failed to talk about education in comparison to HRC honestly has to be just the dumbest thing that has been said in this conversation, and I'm dumber for having to repeat it.

Bernie has quite literally paved the way on Education reform. He was talking about it WAY before any other candidate was and even when they did they were to the right of him. Bernie has advocated for and end to to the modern student loan system, which leaves millions of students 10's of thousands of dollars in debt every year, unable to get rid of it because even if you declare bankruptcy, student loan debt doesn't go away. And with constantly rising interest rates, for many people it becomes impossible to pay off. And while HRC has also proposed that we eliminate student debt, I have yet to actually say how. Meanwhile, I have heard Bernie propose forgiving all current student loan debt(which is probably also something HRC has said in an attempt to gain young voters), free public college and universities(pretty much any college or university owned by the states or the government becomes free for everyone to attend) which has been estimated to cost $70 billion(which, by comparison, is still about $930 billion dollars cheaper than what the US has spent the F-35 fighter program) Education is not something Bernie is weak on at all. He's literally the strongest candidate in either party on this.

http://www.ontheissues.org/Social/Bernie...ation.html

Healthcare: Seriously? Like, really? He's weak on healthcare? Really? The dude who has proposed the biggest healthcare reform plan since Obamacare "doesn't know what he's talking about" you literally use the system he is proposing(congratulations, the NHS is what Bernie wants). If you really think he doesn't know what he's talking about, or is weak on it, you'd better stop paying taxes, because the British Government must be weak on it too.

Seriously, The Washington Post, a paper which literally comes out with a new anti-Bernie article every day, can admit that that he's right on this issue.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk...alth-care/

Seriously, I could go on like this forever(ex: Terrorism, he's "weak" because he wants to end the NSA and close Guantanamo prison because he thinks[as do myself and many that support him]that we shouldn't infringe on our own rights to fight terrorists or else they've already won.) but you really need to do your research. Because when you don't, and I know your wrong(and maybe you do know your wrong, and just don't care. I don't know, I can't read minds), I will be here, ready with research material that you can literally find by typing "Bernie Sanders on [insert issue here]" and ready to prove you wrong every step of the way.

As for "flip-flopping" Bernie hasn't flip flopped on guns, immigration, or race.

1. He has voted to ban assault rifles, he just doesn't believe that you should be able to sue Gun shop owners. While the Brady Bill would've let you sue gun manufacturers, it had no protections for gun shop owners. That's why he voted against it.

2. I'm assuming you're Refering to the bill that would've let Mexico go after the Minutemen. What it would've done is let the Mexican military cross our border and deal with a non-violent vigilante group on our soil. That is absolutely a violation of national sovereignty, and I'm not at all shocked by him doing that. They aren't a "violent hate group" as many politicians on the have tried to paint them. That doesn't mean he agrees with what they are doing, it just means that he doesn't think Mexico has the right to send thier military across the border to deal with a domestic, non-violent vigilante group. That doesn't mean he's against Immigration reform.

3. Are you kidding me? He's flip flopped on race? The man who's been fighting for minorities since the 60's, before any of us were even born, has flip flopped on race, even though he's constantly led the charge for equal rights for all Americans? If you're Refering to the 1992 Crime Bill, he has explained why he voted for it(passing anti-rape legislation) and even right before the vote he was on the floor of the House arguing against the Bill even though he had to vote for it. Seriously, that is a really dumb arguement to make. You know better.

(05-08-2016, 09:15 AM)Punchwood Wrote:

(05-07-2016, 08:15 PM)Qvait Wrote: (1) Secretary Clinton has flip flopped on almost every issue. (2) Even if Bernie Sanders loses the bid for Democratic nomination, he still won, because he pulled Clinton away from the center-right.

1. First of all you have to move on issues so you do the right thing, you can't be an ideological driven politician, and secondly Sanders has "flip flopped" on guns, immigration and race. 2. Yes he has move her closer to the left however she has been on the left and she has moved him closer to the left on the issues I have mentioned before.

One of the reasons why I would be reluctant to vote for her is because she has a hawkish foreign policy. Remember her vote in 2002?

I think if we get a Clinton vs. Trump match up the Republicans are going to emphasis how generally scummy Hillary comes across to the average undecided voter. At the same time they're going to try and make Trump look like The Fonzie, an entertaining, cool-guy "outsider" politician that always speaks his mind. It's going to be a pretty effective strategy when contrasted with the almost desperate and staged-feeling public appearances Clinton has been making. The Email scandal also does nothing but hurt her and has zero effect on Trump.

Considering how fickle the undecided voter can be, it might even work. All you have to do is convince people that your candidate is more likeable than the other guy. And if the Republicans can pair Trump with someone moderate and not batshit crazy then they could serve as a sort of Yang to Trump's Yin in an unholy metaphorical Republican taijitu. If it were me, I would pick former Massachusetts Senator Scott Brown. He's well liked inside the Republican Party, he's known nationally, he's moderate, and, electorally, he does well in historically hard-line Democratic states. Can't ask for someone better as a Republican VP running-mate.

Hillary's best bet is to capture the energy and enthusiasm of Sander's supporters is by making a very public offer to Sanders as her running mate for Vice President. If he accepts, she's a shoe in, and if he doesn't she's on the record as making the offer. Win-win for her.

The way she loses is to reject all the Sander's supporters and assume Trump is a pushover and that the Republican's aren't capable of some incredible and genuine sounding spin-doctoring. She needs to embrace the more left of center-supporters who otherwise will not vote for her.

If the general election turns out to be Secretary Hillary Clinton versus Mr. Donald Trump, the road to 270 will be a grueling and nasty one. Here is my analysis:







References:

1. Blanton, Dana. "Fox News Poll: Clinton's Negatives Surpass Trump's." Fox News. FOX News Network, 18 May 2016. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
2. "General Election: Trump vs. Clinton." RealClearPolitics. N.p., n.d. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
3. "2016 Election Center: Iowa." CNN. Turner Broadcasting System, n.d. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
4. Bash, Dana, Jamie Gangel, and Eric Bradner. "Nikki Haley Endorses Marco Rubio." CNN. Turner Broadcasting System, 17 Feb. 2016. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
5. O'Keefe, Ed. "Jeb Bush Drops out of 2016 Presidential Campaign." The Washington Post. N.p., 20 Feb. 2016. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
6. Miller, Zeke J. "Meet Presumptive Nominee Donald Trump." Time. Time, 4 May 2016. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
7. Lucey, Catherine, and Ken Thomas. "How Bernie Sanders Evolved from Fringe Candidate to Contender." PBS. PBS, 31 Jan. 2016. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
8. Neely, Brett. "Clinton Edges Sanders In Iowa Democratic Caucuses; Cruz Wins On GOP Side." NPR. NPR, 2 Feb. 2016. Web. 21 May 2016.
   
9. Dahl, Melissa. "Youth Vote May Have Been Key in Obama's Win." MSNBC. NBCUniversal, 05 Nov. 2008. Web. 21 May 2016.
   

I doubt Sanders would run with Clinton. It doesn't suit his interests.

(05-26-2016, 06:52 AM)Darkstrait Wrote: I doubt Sanders would run with Clinton. It doesn't suit his interests.

No annoyingly and I doubt she would pick him as well. The logical thing for them both is to run together, Clinton needs Sanders to get his supporters on with her and he does well with white men (the area Trump does well in) and for Sanders it's the highest he'll ever get in office and it means his progressive ideas won't go away after the election they will stay there so long as he is Veep. But unfortunately I think Clinton will pick someone younger and more progressive than her as she will only last one term so I think she'll pick someone to try and groom that person so they can run in 2020.

I doubt Bernie would run with her; ideology aside, being a senator gives you much more influence over policy; as VP you're little more than an advisor. I can't see Bernie in that role.

Somewhere, there is a poll showing that the majority of Bernie supporters would go support Trump over Clinton, which is a problem that must be fixed.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/...-5491.html

The Clinton vs Trump polls have been extremely close lately, down to a percent or two these past few weeks. And that's with a group of undecided at roughly 10-20%.