I just noticed that Mallorea and Riva was granted citizenship on the 13th. I think it is very inappropriate for Mallorea and Riva to have been granted citizenship, especially when we have Milograd permanently banned. Mallorea and Riva physically supported Milograd's coup by controlling the account. By all rights, he committed treason on the same level as Milograd. Ours was not the first coup Mallorea and Riva ever committed or supported, either. He payed a pivotal role when the Brotherhood of Malice took over Osiris and instituted the OFO, which we recognized as a coup and only recognized as the legitimate government when it so clear that the OFO was there to stay.

I am not comfortable with such an obvious security risk having citizenship in this region. He applied for citizenship in May 2013, lying on his application. We have IRC logs from JAL, who was the second of three people controlling Milograd's nation during the coup, saying that Mallorea and Riva was part of the trio. The Cabinet (foolishly, if you ask me) accepted his application, despite the security concerns, because (quoting Hileville), "If he was the third nation and it is found out he can be charged for fraud for lying on the app."

Lastly, there are claims that a "general amnesty" was given, but that is simply not true. The Assembly discussed amnesty, but never acted upon it. Furthermore, the amnesty we discussed was for foot soldiers who were mostly roleplayers who thought they were just having fun, not for the ringleaders. We specifically said that those who organized it must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Mallorea and Riva should have been prosecuted for treason in May 2013.

I implore the Cabinet to seriously consider Mallorea and Riva as a security threat to our region, and take the appropriate actions on his citizenship. I think it would be incredibly short-sighted and foolish for us to ignore his participation, especially when he has never apologized or showed any remorse whatsoever for what he did.

I'm reviewing this and will post my position later tonight.

For reference, here is a screenshot of the Cabinet discussion back when Mall applied for citizenship in May 2013.

(06-19-2014, 09:01 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: For reference, here is a screenshot of the Cabinet discussion back when Mall applied for citizenship in May 2013.

Is it me or does the link not work?

Probably has something to do with all the special characters. You can find the screenshot here: http://thesouthpacific.x10.mx/old_forum/

GR -- check out the CSS page. Arb asked the CSS for their opinion and really I think only Bels and I responded.

If we're banning people for things that "should've been prosecuted" then we should probably also ban Liberteria, too. No?

I think the CSS is wrong and that very little consideration was even made about the security risks. Mallorea and Riva has a repeated history of participating in GCR coups, and conducted one against our own region. If he's not a security threat, then the term is meaningless.

I considered writing a lengthy post about the merits of letting Mall keep citizenship or removing it, and comparing his situation to how Milograd has shown a certain degree of repentance. In the end I realised that few things needed to be said, so I'll list them here:

1. I agree that it is not acceptable to grant citizenship to someone that helped coup our region and was a direct participant in the purge of thousands of nations, including people who are currently serving in the Cabinet.
   
2. Unlike Milograd, Mall has not shown repentance or apologised for his actions and the first thing he did when he registered was start a thread that mentioned coping the region.
   
3. The general amnesty was informally agreed to apply to people like Lint Roller who had supported Milograd but otherwise didn't have a hand in purging nations or participating in the SPSR.
   
4. These are all reasons why Mall shouldn't be given citizenship, but is he really a security risk? He was a security risk in May 2013, but what about how? I am not sure of that, but then I don't think I have all the necessary information. I am willing to hear more about that, including specific instances of him participating in GCR coupes aside from the Milograd Coup.
   
5. Since the admin team has not yet run a security check on Mall, is it legal for the Vice Delegate to rescind his pre-approval? If we agree that Mall is a security risk, that option is one I would prefer.

The Cabinet can remove citizenship for security risks. So we can certainly come out and stomp it before it becomes official.

The risk isn't that Mall would run and get elected to something. But rather that he would coup with someone else -- a la Milo. But, in that, he could have a hand in getting someone like that elected.

I can more or less or either way, but I'm inclined to side with GR here. I think being a foreign invader is worse than being a traitor.

I think it's pretty dumb to limit treason to only citizens, even if that's the meaning of the term in the real world. A coup d'etat should come with the same punishment, no matter a person's citizenship. That's an amendment we should consider for the Charter.

I don't think there's a temporal aspect to being a security risk, when it comes to Mall at least. He has a repeated history of organizing coups. Merely because he is not actively planning one right now doesn't make him any less of a threat. We will never know that he is planning one until it is borne out, by which time it's too late to take any preventive measures. Nobody knew he was going to participate in Milograd's coup or in the Brotherhood of Malice's takeover of Osiris. But that didn't make him any less of a true threat in those regions. It just meant people were ignorant. Given his gameplay philosophy and his history, it would be a mistake for us to turn a blind eye.

I don't think there's anything legally stopping Arbiter from rescinding the application, because the Vice Delegate's decision is merely conditional. There's a small problem that Arbiter accepted it, rescinded it, then accepted it again, and that might be reason for a fuss from some people. But legally, Arbiter can say, "After consultation with the CSS and the Cabinet, your conditional acceptance has been rescinded and your application has been denied due to security concerns surrounding your history of organizing GCR coups (including Milograd's)." Just as long as no final decision is made beforehand, meaning he's not masked before rejection.

Where's the rest of the Cabinet on this?