| [DISCUSSION] Regional Security |
|
I have read the previous posts carefully over the past couple of days.
Whilst I had initial reservations regarding the first post, I believe that the discussion is moving towards something which would be acceptable to the gameside and forumside. I agree with the excellent comments of @Seraph earlier in this discussion. Whilst the role may be largely ceremonial, the Delegate is still seen as important for regional growth and as a key component for cross platform integration. It seems that we should seek to produce set of clearly defined criteria for delegate consideration, and that these should be presented soon and agreed upon at an early stage if practicable. Given the discussions, I have no significant concerns with the split of the DC and CSI, covering the work leg comm and the CRS. In the round, the leg comm and the CRS have done a good job at ensuring stability, and nothing here should suggest otherwise. I can see sense in the split as defined by @Roavin in his first post. The recall powers allow legislators and others to hold to account others, and the duty is on the legislators to be active and engaged to provide the adequate checks and balances. That in itself may be the main issue here. My main concern, however, is we can get the balance correct for forumside and gameside citizens at delegate level, and I believe we are there or thereabouts. i would generally support the principle.
Regarding appointment, I've thought of this a little bit. In practice, even though the Cabinet is the organ responsible for things like LegComm and Justice appointments, the Cabinet works with those institutions to find good individuals. What we can do is to say that Cabinet is generally responsible for appointments, be it Court, DC, CSI, whatnot, except that the Cabinet is required by law to cooperate with those institutions in good faith for their appointments. That might be something that makes everybody .. maybe not happy, but content.
Otherwise, to recap, this looks to be roughly the approach we're going to take (minus the specifics on appointments):
Some questions for the crowd:
![[Image: XXPV74Y.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/XXPV74Y.png?1)
Although I'd like to express my opposition towards this proposal, I understand that Roavin and anyone else who shall submit their proposal to the Assembly, that they shall have the right for their proposal to be given a fair hearing before deciding on which course of action to take, and that it shall be the responsibility of Legislators to debate this proposal in an impartial and rational manner, and if they can, provide constructive advices, feedbacks and opinions so that Roavin's proposal can be checked more thoroughly.
Now, I know that there are people who are entirely outraged by this proposal, I can say to them this, I feel you and I understand your concerns. I also see people, and I don't want to call out any names, being mentioned using words that may not necessarily reflect a true and correct description of their character. Some of you may have known or noticed that I have a close relationship with Islands of Unity. All I can say is that he's a good and decent person who has good intentions and big ambitions for this region. Let us not exploit this situation for our own benefits and purposes to make attacks or insults against a particular individual. Let us not call Islands of Unity a populist demagogue, and let us not call Roavin an oligarch and elitist just because he wants to speak his mind and share his ideas that he thinks will contribute to the betterment of this region. I am very sure that everyone here cares as much about the region as I do and that I love The South Pacific as much as all of you do. That is the reason why all of you have chosen to come here and participate in this debate, I appreciate it very much and I think we can all appreciate that we are lucky enough to live in a free society where we are free to think the way we want and to say the things we want to say. And therefore I ask that all of us put region above self and let us all engage in a fruitful and productive discussion so that Roavin's proposal be considered carefully and thoroughly. Let's get straight to the topic. Roavin, I do have concerns and reservations towards your proposal so I have made several questions for you to answer. QUESTION On post #37, you have said, and I quote, "How does this sound: The requirement for Delegate is "eligible for DC", which somebody already on the DC implicitly is." What is the justification for the additional requirements for candidates who seek election to the Delegacy? Do you think that we would be better off if we enforce the requirements that you have listed, if so, why and how? Have you considered the implications of this action, if so, what do you think the implications would be and how would it impact, both short-term and long-term, the regional community? I strongly believe that a government which fails to command the respect of its people shall not stand. Do you think we can just let democracy do its job? In your opinion, does restricting the pool of candidates for Delegate elections contradict the very basic democratic principles, including the people's right to choose who they want to be the leaders of their region? I will quote a part of the Preamble of the our region's Charter, "The Assembly of the Coalition of The South Pacific, representing our diverse community, convenes to establish this fundamental law of our region, to uphold democratic principles and rights..." If this proposal were to be agreed upon and became law, do you think there will be legal actions against this? Do you think that this proposal contradicts the democratic tradition in The South Pacific and that there would be backlash from the interregional community? I fear that this is quite a lot for you to answer so I want to wait after you've answered this, then, I would send the next set of questions so that you would be able to prepare detailed answers without it burdening you too much. Thank you very much and I look forward to your answers. ![[Image: VCUpXJI.png1]](https://imgur.com/VCUpXJI.png1) BZERNELEG
South Pacifican. Public Servant. Creator. In that order.
Official Thread • Lampshade Broadcasting Company • The Tsunamy Institution of the Law and Public Policy (11-15-2018, 07:33 AM)USoVietnam Wrote: Here are some ideas to fix issues that are attempted to be fixed with Roavin's proposal without making the whole thing into an oligarchy:I'm opposed to the influence restriction on the delegacy, especially if it is set at a very high level. If someone who has had a long career in SPSF (and therefore usually a low endo count in TSP) were to decide to retire and run for the delegacy, they would have to wait for a fairly long time to build up the influence required. This could discourage people from joining SPSF, as not only would it limit their endo count (enough to put some long time -tarters off) but they would be risking leaving themselves in a position where they cannot continue with SPSF and are simply forced to bide their time gaining influence should they return to politics later on.
(11-27-2018, 02:43 PM)Goverwal Wrote:(11-15-2018, 07:33 AM)USoVietnam Wrote: Here are some ideas to fix issues that are attempted to be fixed with Roavin's proposal without making the whole thing into an oligarchy:I'm opposed to the influence restriction on the delegacy, especially if it is set at a very high level. If someone who has had a long career in SPSF (and therefore usually a low endo count in TSP) were to decide to retire and run for the delegacy, they would have to wait for a fairly long time to build up the influence required. This could discourage people from joining SPSF, as not only would it limit their endo count (enough to put some long time -tarters off) but they would be risking leaving themselves in a position where they cannot continue with SPSF and are simply forced to bide their time gaining influence should they return to politics later on. Thats not inherently true. A nation builds influence whether holding high endos or not - although it does take longer. If you have a nation in TSP that doesnt move, and, while not working missions with the SPSF (or any other military) that nation becomes your WA and you tart like hell, you'll still gain influence fairly quickly. And for non-WA-bouncers, Ive been WA'd up in TSP for about a year or so, and have slowly gotten up to 251 endos. Currently, my regional influence has grown to just over 59,000. Thats currently more than enough to apply to the CRS, and that is what the discussion is for a delegate nomination. So, its not THAT hard to get to that mark...
"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011 One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium
(11-27-2018, 11:29 AM)palaisbellevuebz Wrote: Thank you very much and I look forward to your answers. Bzern, your questions all follow a similar theme, and so I will answer them together. As far back as anyone can remember, the name of this region has been a symbol of democracy and freedom, equal to none. We are the citizens of the longest extant democracy of this world, going on 16 years. This is our legacy and heritage. This idea is the beating heart of this region and of our history, it is the idea that has protected this region from all dangers and upheavals, the idea of freedom. And only through the toils and sacrifice of those that gave their everything for this idea has this been achievable, because we exist in a world whose underlying nature is not actually built for it at all! The world of NationStates operates on Hobbesian and Machiavellian principles. Mechanically, it is not possible for us to curtail the role of the WA Delegate, to divide the Delegate's powers, or to enforce a democratic form of governance for us as a region. If we want to opt for democracy, we must do so together and stand as a united community behind the idea of democracy. We can only do that by accepting the truths on which this world was built, and building our democracy on top of them, in spite of those very truths. We are defenders of this idea! If we allow ourselves to treat a mandate which mechanically unites all powers without consideration and caution, and to give no thought to who such a mandate can be awarded at all, or to give no thought to which members of this region are opposed to the exploitation of this mandate in an emergency, then we do not deserve democracy and have failed as defenders of our idea. If our liberalism allows us to squander our own ideals and our own democracy for the benefit of those who exploit it to bring tyranny upon us, then we have failed. Democracy needs more than just willpower. More than just a will to freedom. It requires reason, caution and responsibility. If we solemnly evade this responsibility because we believe it is a sacrifice made for the good of freedom, then we are giving away the heart of our region, our idea and, ultimately, our freedom. The principle of sensible constraints on Delegate candidacies is as old as the Coalition itself, and is a fundamental ingredient to our longevity. Please consider this carefully. Thank you.
(11-27-2018, 02:43 PM)Goverwal Wrote:(11-15-2018, 07:33 AM)USoVietnam Wrote: Here are some ideas to fix issues that are attempted to be fixed with Roavin's proposal without making the whole thing into an oligarchy:I'm opposed to the influence restriction on the delegacy, especially if it is set at a very high level. If someone who has had a long career in SPSF (and therefore usually a low endo count in TSP) were to decide to retire and run for the delegacy, they would have to wait for a fairly long time to build up the influence required. This could discourage people from joining SPSF, as not only would it limit their endo count (enough to put some long time -tarters off) but they would be risking leaving themselves in a position where they cannot continue with SPSF and are simply forced to bide their time gaining influence should they return to politics later on. If you're an active endorsement swapper (which you'd expect a Delegate to be), at the current requirement and endorsement cap, it will take you approximately 2.5 months to reach the required influence from zero. That's not too long in the grand scheme of things, and will show whether or not the candidate is an avid endorsement swapper (as a Delegate should be).
This is short, but I think Roavin's CSI nad DC ideas are a great idea. It gives room for younger players to gain experience up top while maintaining our security.
Midwesterner. Political nerd. Chipotle enthusiast.
Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister (11-27-2018, 04:59 PM)Roavin Wrote:This was beautiful, even if I did read it in the voice of Churchill...(11-27-2018, 11:29 AM)palaisbellevuebz Wrote: Thank you very much and I look forward to your answers. Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond! Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi. Salma 145:8
I still think that some form of government service record is also needed. Prove to the region at large that you are willing to put in the time and energy, and that being the delegate of the greatest region isnt just some conquest.
Ive found over the years that most of the best delegates we've had have been those who have no qualms about working their way up the ladder by holding an elected office before rising to the highest in-game position. Its those people who take the time to get to know the people who make up this region, and who work to make their mark BEFORE they run for delegate.
"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011 One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium |
![[-]](https://tspforums.xyz/images/sidr/blue/collapse.png)
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
Positions
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 6 Guest(s) |