(02-06-2020, 09:56 AM)sandaoguo Wrote: Take my word for what it’s worth nowadays, but...

I don’t get how this is in TSP’s strategic interests. Lazarus isn’t defender, and has historically been ambivalent towards defenders. I think the only time they weren’t was when they were under NPO influence.

So we should only engage with regions that are defender? Cool. That certainly seems as if that stance shall not antagonize regions that do not wish to follow the defender ideology or limit our scope abroad.

Moreover, Lazarus does not have an alignment due to its history. After seeing outsider raiders, defenders and others tear the region apart, is it no surprise that Lazarus has abandoned the defender ideology and refused to adopt any alignment? Or shall you tell me that TSP can only be friendly to committed defenders and no one else?

Being ambivalent is not the same as outright hostility. Hell, even after the NLO coup, Lazarus remained defender for a while. There is a difference between the two terms, and they have different effects on relationships. In our foreign policy, do we work for ourselves or for defender orthodoxy? Why is Lazarus not being defender such a disadvantageous quality for you?

Quote:What foreign policy priority does a nonaggression pact with Lazarus fulfill? Lazarus is allied with Osiris and TWP, both of which are on the opposite pole of TSP in interregional alignment. Given the ample history of Lazarus going back on its word to multiple *allies*, what is a reasonable confidence level that Lazarus will remain non aggressive if Osiris or TWP re-engage with TSP?

With all due respect, the past is the past. Time moves faster in NS than real-life. If you get to know the community of Lazarus today, you shall be aware that it has changed. A region is made up of individuals, and the content of this group of individuals tends to change. Do you really believe that the Lazarene community of today is the same as in 2017, or even 2011? If so, you fail to grasp just how regions can evolve in NationStates. You of all people should know that. After all, did you not live in a capital-I Independent TSP once?

Look around you in this region and tell me: how many people who are politically influential now did you see when TSP was Independent? Few remain.

Quote:Lazarus is part of an open-ended war with the NPO. How would this treaty impact any future relationship between TSP and the NPO? And before anyone brings up NPO’s transgression against us, Lazarus (particularly its historic leaders) and its allies have done tenfold worse in the grand scheme of things. If we’re extending an olive branch to Lazarus, one to the NPO isn’t unthinking and the NPO is by and far a more valuable partner in the long term when considering military and intel strength.

Really? Was it not the other way around: Lazarus has been but a mere pawn in the schemes of others? One person's actions does not a region make, especially those in a past that does not correlate to the circumstances of the present. If so, then every region is to be viewed as evil and with extreme, paranoic suspicion, including TSP because of the actions of a few in the past.

Quote:Is Tubbius really all that trustworthy of a partner? Did they ever purge the Wolf crew, or are they all still welcome in Laz?

Imki cleared the slate clean. That is what the Twelfth Mandate was supposed to do. In any case, you shall not find many people who are fond of the Wolfist days or that would give EW the delegacy, no questions asked. I do not believe Funk, Lamb Stone and crew are present. Besides, the residence of EW in Lazarus is an internal affair, not one that directly impacts TSP.

Tubbius is not even tainted with past Lazarene NSGP history despite his long years of residence in the region (I think he has been in NS for a decade or so?). He was (at least partially) chosen by Imki as her successor because of that, if I recall accurately. If anyone is less trustworthy than Tubbius, it's you, a vast majority of NSGP, and me.

I know you were opposed to it, but after Hileville's coup, we did not purge those who supported him. We offered amnesty to heal the region. Why should Lazarus be any different?

Quote:Traditionally, NAPs are stepping stones to treaties. Do we view this one as such? What about Lazarus makes them a viable future ally? How does that fit with TSP’s defender identity?

Perhaps accept that regions have the right to choose their own alignment, and that being friendly with non-defenders is not the end of the world or a foreign policy catastrophy?

Regions have their own identities. You said so yourself: TSP has a "defender" identity. However, one must accept that other regions have other values and customs that do not align with our own. Our region itself is not monolithical: I am not a defender nor do I adopt the defender values and way of thinking. Is that so bad? A region acting freely and democratically on what it wishes? Is that not what you stood for when you gave your alignment speech, or am I mistaken?

Moreover, this is only a non-agression treaty. I do not see us becoming allies soon. Being friendly or on speaking terms is not the same as being an ally.