On the regional vs full issue, I didn't really want to respond point-by-point but I feel like I have to because there are some things that are, to my understanding, simply not accurate.

(11-24-2020, 06:26 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: First, the law delineates two different forms of proscription (and calls one “full”) for a reason. Just definitionally, the option that isn’t a “full” proscription is a “less than full” one. Regional proscriptions are very obviously a lesser form punishment, i.e. a half-measure.

I wrote the law, and while some parts of it were lifted from other drafts or laws, the specific language that delineates full vs regional proscriptions were written by me, with names I came up with at the time without any opposition. I don't mind arguments against the names. But at the end of the day, what matters is what they describe: The regional proscription is the full monty in terms of anything game-related, i.e. no nation in our region or any of our subsidiaries, therefore no access to legislator status, RMB votes, whatnot. The regional proscription also gives the tools to banject nations and strip legislator status for affected individuals. That's what I mean when I say a proscription is a proscription - the tools are there with either one. The "full proscription" is all of that and merely adds what amounts to a contact prohibition on TSP offsite property. Yes, technically a regional proscription is "lesser" than a full proscription but concluding therefore that a regional one is a half-measure when it already includes all the security tools is, frankly, silly.

(11-24-2020, 06:26 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: Secondly, that’s exactly how proscriptions have been treated by previous Cabinets. When you look at the list of extant proscriptions and read the justifications for them, the pattern is quite clear. McMannia/HYDRA was fully proscribed for infiltrating, but The Ragerian Imperium was only regionally proscribed because McMannia was no longer in leadership there. Core leadership of Rahl is fully proscribed, but the underlings and associates who work with them are only regionally proscribed because they’re not the same level. It’s very clear that there’s a distinction of regional proscriptions as lesser than full proscriptions, and full proscriptions are reserved for the worst of enemies.

Yes, and I haven't always agreed with the decisions made. But the Rahl designation that you pointed out was based on my suggestion and it's a good use of how I feel the delineation should work: The rank and file of Rahl can't become members of our regions. But the ones that pulled the strings in the background, manipulating people to their cause, etc. also got the contact prohibition because they are the ones that are "responsible for planning their political machinations, while compartmentalizing access so that regular members, unaware, can be used alternately as shields or pawns". It wasn't based on who's the "worser" enemy - the Rahl family as an entity is an enemy, period, and the regional proscription gives us the necessary security tools against their machinations.

(11-24-2020, 06:26 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: I think the idea was useful 2-3 years ago, when it was a compromise for Belshaft’s intransigence about proscriptions. In other words, it was better than nothing.

This is false. Bel's view on this is probably mildly closer to Glen's than mine is — Bel's view is simply nuance, while my view is proscribe regionally by default, and go for full only for individuals and only when the contact prohibition is necessary.

(11-24-2020, 06:26 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: That’s why it’s personally frustrating for me that, despite the previous 2+ years of TBH being hostile and pulling these stunts, the instinct of the Cabinet is to choose the lesser form of proscription. TBH is either an enemy or they’re a minor nuisance.

TBH is an enemy, full stop. Therefore, they will be proscribed, full stop. The argument here is merely about if the rank and file of TBH is so dangerous as to not even see the public offsite places of TSP. with their main Discord accounts. And honestly - I'd rather have the rank and file hang out with their main accounts than their alt accounts, so we can see where they are.

And a final note: I'd even consider the regional proscription the stronger one in this case. The full proscription is "we're so scared of you we're not even gonna talk to anybody associated with you". In fact, as I mentioned on Discord, I'd even be so daft as to include a note in the statement along the lines of "OOC: This is a regional proscription and does not bar access to our off-site platforms. Members of TBH, while they cannot have a nation or partake in our governance, are welcome to continue their participation as visitors on our off-site platforms, as several have been doing already."