God no. The last thing we need is a more independent army. It's already been incredibly independent for a long time, and look at where that got us. If anything, we need closer Cabinet oversight and inner discussions, so we can supervise its progress, rather than the ineffective laissez-faire approach.

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Agreed with Kringalia. A more independent army would not encourage the army to listen to the Assembly more - it would have the obvious effect of isolating the SPSF even more from the Assembly, which is nigh impossible because it never used to acknowledge problems when they did exist before anyways!

Part of the issue with the SPSF, I think, is the elections were hardly ever competitive for MoA, so issues were never brought up in the election.

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God no. The last thing we need is a more independent army. It's already been incredibly independent for a long time, and look at where that got us. If anything, we need closer Cabinet oversight and inner discussions, so we can supervise its progress, rather than the ineffective laissez-faire approach.

But who really had the time in the Cabinet to do this? Not to mention, making the MoA a Cabinet members means s/he is on equal footing with the other positions, not subordinate. It's the equivalent of saying the Cabinet needs more supervision of the Fellowship programme, which is clearly the MoRA's responsibility. In fact, the Army is the MoA's ONLY responsibility, and we're suggesting that person can't be trusted to do it.

Part of the issue with the SPSF, I think, is the elections were hardly ever competitive for MoA, so issues were never brought up in the election.

This. I agree, but I'm not sure how you spur people to run.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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Regardless of alignment, any military needs

• Clearly defined objectives
  
• Willing participants
  

Under SouthernBellz TSP military participated in the general anti-nazi campaign, despite Unibots insitance that such action was counterproductive.
The general mood was that the misguded right wing needed to be kept in check and people were therefore willing to commit their WA's.

At the moment there appears to be no shared goal - Glenn opposes raiding, Unibot dislikes Imperilaism, Kris despises Defenderisn

The mandate of SPSF is rather fuzzy and vague, and without an agreed direction cannot effectively demonstrate success.
Publicity  about achievements in the R/D field would serve to stimulate interest, but only if those actions are not condemned at home so to speak.

You say yes, I say no, you say stop and I say go go go

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But who really had the time in the Cabinet to do this? Not to mention, making the MoA a Cabinet members means s/he is on equal footing with the other positions, not subordinate. It's the equivalent of saying the Cabinet needs more supervision of the Fellowship programme, which is clearly the MoRA's responsibility. In fact, the Army is the MoA's ONLY responsibility, and we're suggesting that person can't be trusted to do it.

I am not proposing that the MoA be subordinate to the other Ministers. What I am saying is that there should be more discussions within the Cabinet on how we can help the MoA implement their policies. If I had problems with the Fellowship Programme, then it would make all the sense in the world to ask for help. Sure, it's my responsibility, but if I can't handle it then a Cabinet discussion would be in order. Just like that, there is a need for a thorough Cabinet discussion on the SPSF, and how we can come up with a coherent and feasible policy. The responsibility is still the MoA's, but there is a current need for Cabinet intervention.

Kris despises Defenderisn

Uh...I don't despise defenderism.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
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But who really had the time in the Cabinet to do this? Not to mention, making the MoA a Cabinet members means s/he is on equal footing with the other positions, not subordinate. It's the equivalent of saying the Cabinet needs more supervision of the Fellowship programme, which is clearly the MoRA's responsibility. In fact, the Army is the MoA's ONLY responsibility, and we're suggesting that person can't be trusted to do it.

I am not proposing that the MoA be subordinate to the other Ministers. What I am saying is that there should be more discussions within the Cabinet on how we can help the MoA implement their policies. If I had problems with the Fellowship Programme, then it would make all the sense in the world to ask for help. Sure, it's my responsibility, but if I can't handle it then a Cabinet discussion would be in order. Just like that, there is a need for a thorough Cabinet discussion on the SPSF, and how we can come up with a coherent and feasible policy. The responsibility is still the MoA's, but there is a current need for Cabinet intervention.

Kris despises Defenderisn

Uh...I don't despise defenderism.

Sorry, I get confused with shifting loyalties, my apologies if my statement has offended

I am sure there ARE elements in TSP that despise defenderism though!

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Oh, I'm not offended, it was only a bit confusing, since I consider myself relatively balanced, in terms of alignment. If this is because of the many times I have said that TSP won't become a defender region, that's the same thing I would say about TSP becoming a raider region.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
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Oh, I'm not offended, it was only a bit confusing, since I consider myself relatively balanced, in terms of alignment. If this is because of the many times I have said that TSP won't become a defender region, that's the same thing I would say about TSP becoming a raider region.

Point is Raiding will be condemned by those who lean toward defending, and Defending will annoy those who lean towards raiding

If we say SPSF are permitted to do either (as they will need to do to hone their skills) then somebody in TSP is bound to get upset

A year or so ago Antarial managed to take one of the Warzones and hold it in the name of TSP but I beieve was highly critcised for it.
Despite the fact that this is the very reason the Warzones were created

In such an environment any military leader could be forgiven for not initiating any action at all!

What may be required is a policy statement to distinguish which regions are considered friendly and therefore will be supported in the event of an attack and conversely a list of regions considered hostile and/or those in which the SPSF can act with impunity. 

(This post was last modified: 01-22-2015, 04:47 PM by Chancellor of Admonora.)

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Ok I have read this, thanks guys for the crossed eyes. I am going to read the other threads on this subject.

Know this, at one point the Volunteer Forces of TSP did hold a total of 30 members at one point. But back then the "Military" of TSP had a different objective and it worked.

Anyway off to read more and check on more of the discussions going on at this point in time.

I do not wish to see this disbanded, at the same time I don't like the thought of something sitting idle with nothing to do. 

My one and only Minion is Rebs.
Now to reclaim my crown.
It is a location joke.
All those who wander are not always lost...
The voices inside of my head get along with the monsters under my bed that do bone dances with the skeletons in my closet while the disco ball hangs by a thread...
one of the1st Delegates of TSP...she went crazy..naw she was already bonkers...

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I still think that supporting the Delegate and helping in allies' transitions should be the only missions of a SPSF-turned Civil Guard. I bet more people would sign up for a Civil Guard, which has a more defined purpose, than to do missions like so far.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
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