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(02-19-2015, 01:46 PM)Punchwood Wrote: Just answer me this. Was OLBT illegal? If so I will support the Cabinet's decision if not I will do whatever I can to make sure that Bel is giving back his citizenship and has a fair trail. If you cant see that it was illegal then no one is going to be able to explain it to you. He was blatantly attempting to stack the cabinet to remove people from the region. What else is there to explain?
Apad
King of Haldilwe
(02-19-2015, 01:45 PM)Punchwood Wrote: I am not repeating the same thing over Kris, your doing more than I am the same answers over and over. I am not on about the removal of Bel's citizenship I am on about agreeing with Bel that OLBT was "fair" and "100% legal" Punch, I responded in the other thread, but it's a matter of degrees. It's all right to invite a friend to the region. It's not all right to plan a systematic invasion from another region. Let me also clarify in that I use "Fair" as a place filler, not that I'm declaring something is judicious. Since we're going to be parsing out my personal communication, I think that's the proper thing to do.
-tsunamy
[forum admin] (02-19-2015, 01:47 PM)Apad Wrote: If you cant see that it was illegal then no one is going to be able to explain it to you. He was blatantly attempting to stack the cabinet to remove people from the region. What else is there to explain? Well tsu and Bel both seemed to think it was legal. Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member Former Minister of Regional Affairs Former High Court Justice
I'm tore now. It really depends on how you describe a "systematic invasion". For now at least I will back the Cabinet's decision.
Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member Former Minister of Regional Affairs Former High Court Justice
Out of curiosity, where is the line between recruitment and election fraud? I certainly wouldn't find anything wrong with inviting people I like to come to TSP, but if it ends up being 5 people who all have similar views as me, would that be election fraud? conspiracy?
I wonder if this grey area is why the courts have been sidestepped in this matter. Bels's actions were clearly unethical because of his malicious intent, and I'm sure he could have been convicted of treason with the evidence of said intent, but if someone else did something similar and wasn't so brazen about it, would it be illegal? Edit: Based on what Tsu said in the other thread, it doesn't seem like this would be illegal. The only reason it was wrong/illegal was because it had a secret forum on another board. Is that within TSP's jurisdiction?
(02-19-2015, 02:14 PM)Sopo Wrote: Out of curiosity, where is the line between recruitment and election fraud? I certainly wouldn't find anything wrong with inviting people I like to come to TSP, but if it ends up being 5 people who all have similar views as me, would that be election fraud? conspiracy? No matter where it takes place, I think plotting against the Coalition is relevant. Outside of that Sopo, I think that this is a large grey area in our law, and something that should be addressed.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
Sopo,
Belschaft wasn't bringing friends because they were cool and thought they'd have a good time in TSP. He planned it specifically to influence elections, overturn legislation and get people he politically opposed removed from the region. I think the line is pretty clear. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System (02-19-2015, 01:46 PM)Punchwood Wrote: Just answer me this. Was OLBT illegal? If so I will support the Cabinet's decision if not I will do whatever I can to make sure that Bel is giving back his citizenship and has a fair trail.I'll answer this. OLBT was illegal because Belschaft was plotting against the Coalition by vote stacking. Isn't it obvious? I believe that Belschaft is 100% guilty as well, but can someone answer me this?: Why did Tsu agree with Belschaft in IRC? Was he playing along or interested in vote stacking and removal of Glen Rhodes and Unibot? Because if that's true, both Belschaft and Tsunamy could be guilty of fraud, as said in Article 5.3 of the Code of Laws: Quote:Article 5: Criminal Code Maybe not Tsunamy, but Belschaft could be.
Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)
Local Council Member(April 24-August 11) Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)
(02-19-2015, 03:31 PM)Ryccia Wrote: Why did Tsu agree with Belschaft in IRC? Was he playing along or interested in vote stacking and removal of Glen Rhodes and Unibot? (02-19-2015, 01:22 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: In fact, his attitude and responses throughout the logs fit with his usual attitude when joking or not being entirely serious on IRC. He was told of the OBT plan and misinterpreted its full extent. I had already discussed this with him the moment OBT was revealed, and was satisfied with his explanation. He enjoys the full confidence of the Cabinet, and is a great Delegate. Tsu can sometimes say things as a joke, or with the understanding that he's not serious. Especially with something as consequential and possibly illegal as removing citizens based on political differences, I seriously doubt he was being serious. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System |
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