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Dali isn't Neenee, last time I checked, and neither have committed any hostile act against TSP. Nor is membership in The Empire either a crime or prohibited by TSP laws.
Perhaps the question you should be asking, Punchwood, isn't "why should we admit Dali if we denied Neenee", but rather "why did we deny Neenee at all?"
Whether or not a crime has taken place is not the question. No one has said that Dali and co have committed a crime against TSP. Continuing to argue that leads nowhere.
And I think that's the problem TAC, we're just suppose to believe Dali shouldn't be allowed in based upon Feels.
Dali hasn't done anything wrong, and we've been given nothing by either the Vice-Delegate or anyone in the Cabinet to suggest he's here for sinister intent outside of Unibot's vague suggestion that he could do something at some time that might be bad. Maybe! (03-11-2015, 01:29 PM)Wolf Wrote: And I think that's the problem TAC, we're just suppose to believe Dali shouldn't be allowed in based upon Feels. Actually, we're supposed to allow Dali based upon "feels". We're denying him on the basis of his personal history in Osiris, TRR, TEP, and TNP.
The suspicion and possibility will almost always be there and that is the issue at hand. You have to admit the timing was impeccable. It is a matter of coincidence and circumstance, but that's about as far as it goes. How Dali acts now and how we handle it is the hardest step.
(03-10-2015, 03:09 PM)Wolf Wrote: Actually, we're supposed to allow Dali based upon "feels". We're denying him on the basis of his personal history in Osiris, TRR, TEP, and TNP. Unibot, you yourself have a personal history, quite an exhaustive one, in many regions as well. In TNP, for example, you supported a coup against the government at one point, there was a spy from your organization that was caught and convicted for stealing information there, and you've been declared a persona non grata by TNP's government. However, no one here is arguing that Unibot should be declared a Security Threat in TSP for his actions in TNP, because it would be totally ridiculous to bring that up as it has nothing to do with TSP. Anyone who tried to declare Unibot a Security Threat for his personal history in TNP would be lambasted for their shameful, mean sprinted, and obviously politically motivated attack. Yet, this is exactly what Unibot is doing to Dalimbar.
Can someone explain what the Empire has even done besides a single incident in TEP more than six years ago? I'm getting the impression it's not a serious threat for many regions and it took me nearly two years in TSP before I even heard of the Empire and to my memory for most of that time at least one member has been a citizen.
Oh for goodness sakes. Dail has admitted to being a part of a COUP!!! In fact organising a COUP!!!! I don't think we should accept someone who is capable to raise successful coups into TSP.
This is the main augment to no allow Dail in. I myself don't know where I should cast my ballot. You has admitted to organising coups however that libertarian side of me says let him in. Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member Former Minister of Regional Affairs Former High Court Justice (03-11-2015, 02:40 PM)Farengeto Wrote: Can someone explain what the Empire has even done besides a single incident in TEP more than six years ago? I'm getting the impression it's not a serious threat for many regions and it took me nearly two years in TSP before I even heard of the Empire and to my memory for most of that time at least one member has been a citizen. All of The Empire's members had a history of couping and leading subversive governments prior to the creation of The Empire in 2008; See The Core, and The Crimson Order etc. After the creation of The Empire, it's members have been involved in a number of feeders: - They occupied The East Pacific for months. (2008) - When Naivetry inherited the delegacy from Kandarin, The Empire attempted to position itself within The Rejected Realms (see Wham, Dali and Biyah). (2011) - They were complicit and active participants of the Sedgistan Coup in The South Pacific. (2011) - Biyah organised a coup on The Rejected Realms. (2011) - When Sedgistan was elected in The Rejected Realms and Osiris was created, The Empire fled to Osiris. (2011) - They established a political order in Osiris where they were maintaining significant control over Osiris and, as according to their M.O, even couped their own region once - exemplfying their gross maladminstration; they regularly coerced public officials to do as they wished and were the source of an internal struggle in Osiris. (2011-13) - When OFO became the leaders of Osiris, they condemned The Empire and removed them from the region (2013-2014). - Lazarus's harbouring of The Empire became a serious point of contention between Osiris and Lazarus, leading up to the Lazarene-Osiris War (2014). Remarks from former KRO members on The Empire... "The old regrime of Osiris were paranoid of anyone who threatened their tight grip on the region. The amount of time and effort I put in the region I had hoped would speak for itself. It wasn't even until the Empire gained control of the delegacy with that stunt of theirs that people even started to listen to me and treat me as a part of the region (and by that point, I had been in the region for a year and had held multiple positions." - Jakker. "One year ago, I ejected Dalimbar from the Region of Osiris, declared martial law, and founded the Osiris Fraternal Order. The Triumvirate of Cormac, Koth, and myself (from here on out known as CoKoVe) took drastic action and put our plan into action. We continued to remove Empire, and Empire sympathizers from our region and we worked our way towards stability and establishing one of the strongest and welcoming communities I've ever been a part of." - Venico. "The removal of the Empire was why we were founded." - Koth on the founding of the OFO. "I got rid of a group that constantly threatened Osiris with war. There are public logs of, incident after incident. They DID coup the region. They manipulated the system and constantly used their in game influence as leverage to get their way. They thought that if they threatened war that everyone would back down. This happened with the Georgie admin situation, this happened with the Security Council raising Empire flags, this happened in the neutral talks I hosted between Asta and Biyah. I could go on listing the crimes they did to the community and I have in multiple places so I'll keep this one brief. Their mistake was that they didn't think anyone had the balls to say yes. I did and the community backed me." - Venico on The Empire and their removal. Frattastan summaries it nicely... "The Empire was the regime set up in The East Pacific after Lady Phedre's coup in 2008. Since then, the term has been used to describe the loose group of players who led that effort. They (especially high-profile members: Biyah, Dalimbar, New Kervoskia, Neenee are the ones mentioned most frequently) have been involved in other GCRs in the following years and have been accused of trying/tried to subvert them: infiltrate their political systems, destabilize their governments, take control 'behind the scenes' with questionable tactics. Biyah and Dali were high-up in Osiris until the estabilishment of the OFO (when Venico banned them for their actions in the region until then). The Kemetic Republic was the first regime of Osiris, estabilished by the first players to 'settle' in the region. Since late 2012 it came under increasing criticism of having a flawed constitution, being organised to favour a small clique, ridden with infighting and ever more instable (various coups). It was dissolved in September 2013 during the delegacy of Detective Figs (Asta), and eventually replaced with the OFO when the reform process stalled (due to a number of problems inherited from the KRO, including the presence of Empire members)." - Frattastan |
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