(03-11-2015, 04:20 PM)Wolf Wrote: All that seems very incriminating...if this were Osiris.

Farg asked what The Empire has been doing since 2008 - most of that time was spent in Osiris. 

You're kinda missing the point Wolfy...

And while The Empire has focused on mainly Osiris, it's members have been involved in many, many other regions, none of which The Empire has helped coup.

So basically mentioning Dalimbar's involvement in The Empire organization serves what purpose again? I'm a notorious raider and I was allowed citizenship. If Unibot were to list only the "bad things" I've ever done, ignoring all the things I got a WA Commendation for, it would probably look very scary and fill several pages. Absent from that list, however, would be any hostile act committed against TSP, just as the list of Empire deeds above has no reference to TSP.

(03-11-2015, 04:26 PM)TAC Wrote: You're kinda missing the point Wolfy...

You're right. I'm not even sure what the point was to denying Dalimbar citizenship to start with.

I didn't miss the Vice-Delegate not posting in this thread, however. There is a total lack of explanation on Penguin's part for the denial.

It doesn't need a reference to TSP. Again, whether or not Dali committed a crime in or act of hostility against TSP is irrelevant to the issue at hand. Let's try not going in circles.

What is the issue at hand? That Dalimbar did stuff people don't like in Osiris? How is that worthy of a denial of citizenship? Osiris isn't TSP.

Are we going to deny or revoke citizenship everyone who took part in a civil war or coup attempt in other regions? If so, I could probably compile a list for the Cabinet and Vice Delegate of citizens who have partaken in such activities outside of The South Pacific. Just off the top of my head, Unibot and I would both be on it.

If the standard is that a hostile act must be committed against TSP, then there would be no logic to calling it a "security THREAT." By that point, our security would have already been breached.

(03-11-2015, 04:43 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: If the standard is that a hostile act must be committed against TSP, then there would be no logic to calling it a "security THREAT." By that point, our security would have already been breached.

And the problem with that logic, and that definition of "Security Threat", is that literally anyone can be declared a Security Threat for any reason.

-Like to raid regions? You might raid TSP. Security Threat.
-Had a disagreement with the Delegate? You might try to coup them. Security Threat.
-Tried to overthrow the Pacific when Franco was Delegate? You have a history of coup attempts in Feeders. Security Threat.
-Had membership in Gatesville 3 years ago to participate in their RP forums? Gatesville coups feeders a lot, therefore you also like to coup feeders. Security Threat.
-Don't like what the Cabinet considers a "Security Threat"? Hmm, that sounds mighty suspicious, you might be trying to coup the region. Security Threat

It's absolutely ludicrous how this can all be twisted. Since when is The South Pacific in the business of Precrime?

It's also an academic discussion because Dalimbar WAS involved with a coup of The South Pacific; not just Osiris... or The East Pacific... or The North Pacific... or The Rejected Realms....

(03-11-2015, 04:53 PM)Unibot Wrote: It's also an academic discussion because Dalimbar WAS involved with a coup of The South Pacific

(03-10-2015, 11:48 AM)Unibot Wrote: 1. The Prohibited Organisations Law is prohibitive not preventative: organisations can only be prohibited in retrospect AFTER they have been found to coup, commit espionage  etc. in The South Pacific.

You seemingly contradict yourself.

On the one hand you state The Empire cannot be put on the Prohibited Organizations list because they have not "been found to coup, commit espionage etc. in The South Pacific."

On the other hand you claim The Empire participate in a coup of The South Pacific.

Which is it? If your claim is really true, why has The Empire not been put on the Prohibited Organizations list? I've asked that question before, and now I will ask again. Furthermore, why is Dalimbar, who is a resident of TSP, not being charged with a crime? Go charge him right now if we possess proof he broke the law.

I had forgotten until this morning that The Empire was involved with the coup on The South Pacific - it didn't cross my mind until I was going through all their past involvements (after Farg asked me too). I believe The Empire would qualify under the Prohibited Organisations law - but there still remains the question of whether Article 7 is too controversial a clause to be used.

As for the courts - they recently just rejected a case from 2011 as being "too old;" I don't see why they'd entertain another case from 2011.