If they are obvious targets for exclusion - why is it so unfathomable that their citizenship might be denied, again?

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Good evening all, here's my post for this evening/early morning (I'm tired, and had to deal with legitimate drag queens today, so dealing with wannabe drag queens is tiring right now).

I honestly am not sure where to begin. I see so much contradiction here that attempting to make sense of it all is a futile exercise. This is partly where my point about drama in this region is rife and of concern is valid. Certain members of the government can't even make a coherent point on *why* I should be kicked out. I am further disappointed once again that there is no hard evidence presented here that states that I am a legitimate threat to The South Pacific, except for hearsay and accusations.

It's funny, because the tactics used by certain members of this government are of a similar nature to what was accused of Empire. Making decisions behind closed doors with no oversight. Denying folks access to citizenship simply because they were not "approved". Dissent from the main line is not to be tolerated. Frankly, if you want to be "better" than the bogeyman you project, then try to act better.

I know feeder and sinker security better than most due to experience and getting my hands dirty in both coups and counter-coups, and in my earlier career a lot of it was certainly unorthodox and politically incorrect. There are many aspects of NS that an individual may find "horrible" and "unsavory", and I find many of the actions in gameplay to be idiotic, ridiculous, or asinine. Yet, so long as they follow the rules of the game itself, then fine, let them play. As I have never had any of my nations deleted by the moderators (unlike some here), that clearly states that I follow the rules of the game.

On the note of the timeline of my involvement here, which I had already explained to Kris previously: I joined on my own accord, after an invitation from Tsu (who was not in a position of power then). I was accepted with no problems. I voted in the election. The holidays happened, and was busy with that, so my nation CTE'd here. Nee applied, for a while I didn't even really know nor cared. She told me that she was denied citizenship, but never asked for any participation on my end. I re-applied to TSP to see if my rights as a recent citizen would be upheld, and after almost a month of waiting (Penguin, I understand your situation, and do not blame you at all), here we are. I will not comment on the fluff and bluster from certain members here, trying to score cheap political points.

I am willing to sign a legally binding document which prohibits me from doing actions which are hostile or contemptuous to The South Pacific. My own failure to uphold my end of said document could mean a legal banning of me from both TSP the region and the forums. I honestly do not care about "manipulating", "sabotaging", "using", "couping" or whatever.

I'm going to keep it short tonight, and end on that note. I don't want you to love me. You don't have to like me. At the end of the day, we are all engaged in politics, but what I hope to see is a better politics for TSP.

Dalimbar
Delegate (Ret.) of The North Pacific
Delegate (Ret.) of Osiris
Folk Hero of the Pacifics
Member of the Ex-Feeder Tyrant Club
TSP's Best Mall

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You would be banned regardless.

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Could the politics of TSP be improved? Probably. I've already posted once elsewhere about my concerns that we're in danger of being a bigger threat to each other than any external force if things don't quieten down a bit and being a Court Justice at the moment feels much akin to being a pinata. However, that's an entirely separate issue from the question of whether to grant you citizenship.

Tsu and Escade have both said positive things about you which is a factor for you. You didn't abuse your citizenship during your time in TSP which is a positive. Some of your answers though haven't swayed me towards acceptance yet and one or two have pushed me towards rejecting.  I'll keep an open mind on this and keep reading the comments but I guess what I'm saying is I'm still looking for a reason to assuage lingering doubt over your Empire involvement.

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Wolf — let's be fair here. If everyone is suddenly swamping the region to "see if they'll be accepted" doesn't that seem suspicious? Or at least COULD seem suspicious?

Anything can be construed as suspicious to the paranoid, and that's really the problem.

The only connection Dalimbar, Todd, Neenee, and I have is that we're all former Feeder Delegates. Beyond that, we're just typical game players with long histories of involvement in various feeders. Apparently that thin connection is enough to arouse massive suspicion. Just image how the response would be if we all had current membership in the same region or group?

As for BGP, I have no idea who that even is or how they are wrapped up in this whole paranoia fueled mess, so I guessing they either got the short end of the stick or where on someones shit-list.

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Don't play us like fools. Keep saying we're paranoid all you want. I'm not looking over my shoulder, afraid we're about to be invaded and taken over.

But I do know that people in this game do pull stunts, even if they have no real intention of a coup. I think it was dumb for several people to apply for citizenship at the same time, knowing their histories would make it look very suspicious. Calling that out doesn't make anyone paranoid. It's due diligence. You would be doing the same in your region if, say, several UDL members all applied for citizenship at once.

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Pardon me for asking, and I know this thread's about Dali and his appeal, but what if any threat does one or several people pose to this region or your power? You're an administrator, a cabinet member, you were just nominated to be in the CSS (of which it looks like you have a lot of support), you have extended jurisdiction to approve or deny citizenship apps... I guess I fail to see what sort of a threat a group of individuals who happen to have a varying degree of history would pose to you. I mean, are you running for delegate next election and want to make sure you can secure the vote of the region? Let me tell you, if a certain clause in the charter was not being abused, certain people didn't have to fight for their right to be a citizen here, and you were open and willing to let bygones be bygones, I'd have zero problem voting for you as a delegate. So I guess I just don't understand where the concern rests. I mean, many of those who were denied or are probably going to be denied have been tacked in some Joeseph McCarthy-esque list even. Based on hearing that, I don't feel welcome at all and don't like my chances to be a citizen in a region where I worked for six years and I'll bet others don't either.

Anyway sorry for the minor threadjack.

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I can not speak for the others, but I know I decided to join after hearing about how Belschaft had his citizenship revoked without a trial. No one told me to come here.

Honestly, I wanted to see if I would even be granted citizenship. I was genuinely surprised when I was given it, although, according to Unibot at least, this is because the Vice-Delegate missed the minor detail of who exactly I was. Perhaps this is why the others have applied when they did, to see if the rumors are true and TSP has gone completely paranoid, denying people left and right or stripping them of their rights without even so much as a trial.

I must say, so far, the rumors appear true. I would not be the least bit surprised if I were declared a Security Threat any day now, I'm even positive that there is probably a thread on me in the Cabinet discussing that very topic right now.

Wolf — let's be fair here. If everyone is suddenly swamping the region to "see if they'll be accepted" doesn't that seem suspicious? Or at least COULD seem suspicious?

I'm all about being as open as possible, but you've nailed the reason some people have been concerned — or, at the very least, nailed the argument some can make against the current influx of citizens.

That's the same thing I was thinking when Neenee wanted citizenship. Why are they coming all at once? Because if you(Dali and others) were planning something, then you made a fatal mistake. I would support your citizenship if all of you did not come at the same time, but you did. And you(and the others) have been involved, in one way or another, in "shady business" in the past, if I recall. That raises suspicion.

If not, then state your point.

Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)

Local Council Member(April 24-August 11)

Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)

Quotes

"The 1% is like a 1% battery charge. It will die out if it is not charged(the charge is the 99%). But if you don't charge it, it will die for sure, sooner or later"
- Me (2001- Present)

"Change is the world's blood"
- Me (2001-Present)

[Image: 9ehfkQV.png]

(This post was last modified: 03-12-2015, 10:51 AM by Jay Coop.)

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That's the same thing I was thinking when Neenee wanted citizenship. Why are they coming all at once? Because if you(Dali and others) were planning something, then you made a fatal mistake.

If not, then state your point.

Can't speak for anyone but myself, but I can assure you no one's spoken to me about anything. I assume it's the same story for the others here. Nee and Dali are friends. As for me, I highly doubt anyone especially me would willfully be connected in any more plots. Honestly, the older gameplayers have been around the block more than just a few times - most 'plans' don't include people fighting for their right to be a citizen through six pages of dicsussion. If there is a 'plan' to subvert TSP, why not check all of the citizenship apps? Surely if this was a plan there would be plants all over the place, right? There could even be plants arguing against folks to increase their influence among the powers that be, right?

This is why this whole business of guilty until proven innocent is utter hogwash. I don't know how else to say it, but as far as I know there's no plan, no 'fix is in', no whatever when it comes to TSP. The people in power are not only administrators, but are also cabinet members, CSS members, make lists of people they don't like and present them to the assembly, and now apparently have the ability to approve or deny citizens. What exactly would a plan accomplish? Why go through an ordeal? Why spend the time? The only thing this has done is make me realize that whatever Mav, Fudge, Tsrill, Topid, Kloister, C-R, Bellz, htz and all the other old, prominent TSP members worked hard for is in danger of being completely lost. I know, I worked with them. And they'd never let this fly. Oh, they'd watch you like a hawk, but they'd never do something like this.

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Ugh. I'd like to pull the plug on this discussion because it's not productive and showing a horrible side of TSP.

While I plan to abstain from voting, I would like to motion this for a vote.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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