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**Farengeto** · 10-31-2015, 12:42 PM

If you're doing (I find every aspect of this a terrible idea) Brave Toaster you might as well get rid of the CSS and endo cap.

***Tsunamy*** · 10-31-2015, 05:00 PM

(10-31-2015, 12:42 PM)Farengeto Wrote: If you're doing (I find every aspect of this a terrible idea) Brave Toaster you might as well get rid of the CSS and endo cap.

Please explain why you think every aspect of this is a terrible idea. I'm tired of these non-useful jabs. And, if your take is that "it's anti-democratic" please explain -- in detail -- how the current system is more democratic to the 5,000 nations in TSP.

Honestly, the CSS and the endo cap are incredibly important to the process under a declaration/challenge process. However, they do provide unique challenges if CSS members were to challenge the delegate.

-tsunamy
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Punchwood · 11-01-2015, 11:34 AM

This will destroy TSP's way of life. The gap between forum and game-side users will become even larger and our security will be put under risk. There is no way 5,000 active nations in TSP if people want to vote for their government they should join the forums it's not difficult.

Voting shall begin soon and I pled to everyone to vote against this for the good of TSP.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

Resentine · 11-01-2015, 11:42 AM

(11-01-2015, 11:34 AM)Punchwood Wrote: This will destroy TSP's way of life. The gap between forum and game-side users will become even larger and our security will be put under risk. There is no way 5,000 active nations in TSP if people want to vote for their government they should join the forums it's not difficult.

Voting shall begin soon and I pled to everyone to vote against this for the good of TSP.

Ok, Punch, take it down to maybe an 8? Starting to trend towards dramatic overstatement.

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Punchwood · 11-01-2015, 12:50 PM

But it's not. If I was to be dramatic I would say this would doom us all and we would all die and so on. What I am saying is the truth yes we could survive with this new system however the dangers are to high and it would destroy the current way TSP operates.

Also you have to make things seem more dramatic than they really are (this is an exception) to sell something. If there was a can of coke and you had to sell it you wouldn't say "it taste nice and it's a bit fizzy" you would say "it's lovey and sweet, it gives you energy and it's lovey and fizzy!" Another thing it's a good idea in politics not to attack your teammates.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

Darkstrait · 11-01-2015, 01:54 PM

If it gets more chance for the forum-siders to get into government, I'm all for it.

Darkstrait :ninja:

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Sam111 · 11-01-2015, 09:11 PM

So, anyone could become delegate, and we'd just have to hope they'd follow our laws? This renders the CSS powerless, the endo cap useless and our entire security systems a shambles, or am I missing something here?

Hello

**Farengeto** · 11-01-2015, 09:19 PM

(11-01-2015, 09:11 PM)Sam111 Wrote: So, anyone could become delegate, and we'd just have to hope they'd follow our laws? This renders the CSS powerless, the endo cap useless and our entire security systems a shambles, or am I missing something here?

And in addition to all of that, the existence and power of the forums in its entirety is under the assumption that the delegate at the time will almost entirely surrender the position's power to us.

Scylla · 11-01-2015, 09:29 PM

Firstly, I disagree with the proposed separation of game-side and forum-side communities even further. Currently, the argument is that there is too much separation and thus it's not really democratic. I argue that this is approaching it in the wrong way. Yes, the system could be more democratic. Yes, the system could be more inclusive. But under this system, anyone can be elected. What happens if they don't even join the forums? Do we refuse to allow them as delegate? Why bother then? If they don't cooperate, the whole system is pointless and we'd best shut down the forum aspect entirely and hand the reigns to them - but that's another argument.

Secondly, this proposed form of democracy is contentious due to it's correlation with OBT. One can argue against out current flaws all you want, but the proposed system has its own and catalysed our slow movement to it. Democratically you can see a challenge system is 'more fair', but most democracies run under a term based system. At least in the current system people will run for a system of significance.

Thirdly, the position is pointless. We're running a democratic election for a supposed single position that constitutes the existing Local Council. May I bring up the general lack of success with the LC in 'being a representative of the game-side community to the forums.' Not only this, but we're handing this person the reigns to the entire region. What's to stop the PM being booted from the region?

I am not suggesting that we're in an ideal state currently. I am not suggesting that the current forum dominance is good either. But I do not think this proposal is a good idea.

Please feel free to challenge my statements - these are entirely based on my opinions and experience (albeit limited) in the community, and am more than willing to hear counter-arguments.

Call me toast.

***sandaoguo*** · 11-02-2015, 11:32 AM

Characterizing it as "anyone can become Delegate" isn't right. Under the current plan Tsunamy has envisioned, they would still have to be citizens. They wouldn't be above the forum-based government. They would be vetted by the CSS before being allowed to challenge for the position, and be given a limited window to overtake the sitting Delegate in endorsements. The endo-cap would still apply outside of that window. More, the Delegate wouldn't have the reins to the region. They would be the head of state in a mostly ceremonial role, with a necessary security component and of course the power of the WA. The power of governance would still reside on the forums in the Prime Minister and the Cabinet.

If a Delegate refuses to recognize the laws and the legitimacy of the forum-based government, they'd be a rogue Delegate and we would deal with them as we have before. This system isn't really any different, from a security standpoint, than the Delegate being elected on the forum. The only difference is in who does the electing.