| Amendment to Citizenship Removals 1.2.7 of the Charter |
(06-10-2014, 01:51 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Because there are other ways to be active than these forums -- for example, the RMB. Citizenship is for participating on our off-site community. We hold elections on these forums. Every government decision is made on these forums. Every cultural event. Every treaty. Every Assembly discussion. The Assembly itself. The forums are our government, and citizenship is the way you participate in the government. (06-10-2014, 01:51 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: I understand that we want people to be active, but using arbitrary posting requirements is, in fact, ridiculous. Someone can write two posts in the spam threads and that, ultimately, fulfills their requirement. Is that what you want? It's better than somebody logging on, getting citizenship, not posting for 89 days, then voting in elections! (06-10-2014, 01:51 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: That really doesn't help participation and rather just poses another obstacle we all have to abide by. I'd sooner use come up with activities to get people involved rather than forcing them to get involved. Do activity requirements force people to be active? No. They are passive requirements to ensure that people are actually members of this community. Sir Pitt's analogy is perfect. Somebody who is already active is always going to meet the requirements. Somebody who is not active isn't, which is the entire point! If you want to create activities, then go create them. Allowing citizens to be inactive for even longer isn't going to encourage inactive citizens to be active, Tsunamy.
Why? Why are you degrading the active users on the RMB? I get that they aren't as active in this part of the community, but are they not members nonetheless?
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(06-10-2014, 02:15 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: Why? Why are you degrading the active users on the RMB? I get that they aren't as active in this part of the community, but are they not members nonetheless? It's not "degrading" them at all. It's recognizing that these forums and the NS region are not a single seamless community. If you want to participate in the government, you have to register on these forums and get citizenship. That's how all off-site governments work. The very purpose of having an off-site community is that there's no means of workable government on the NS region page. There's no way to secure elections, either. It's not a lot to ask, Tsu. If somebody on the RMB wants to participate in TSP's government, they will come to these forums and be active. If they're not active and posting, then they obviously don't want to participate. We need to stop with this idea that citizenship is an inherent right of anybody in the region. Residents have a right to apply for citizenship and have their application be treated equally with all others. Nobody has a right to keep citizenship once they have it, if they don't meet the requirements. Nobody has a right to automatic citizenship just for having a nation in TSP. Citizenship is a perk. It's a special title you get, with special privileges, for actually participating in TSP's off-site government. That's not a bad thing. It's how our government has always worked.
I disagree with all posting requirements. There is one TSP community that takes place over ns, the forums, irc, skype, twitter, and other places.
We vote here because we can organize it and prevent spam from blocking democracy. I would even argue that rmb activity is more important than posting on the forum. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
The 16th Delegate of The South Pacific
Wasn't there a debate about getting rid of citizenship and replacing it with voter registration?
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
(06-10-2014, 02:23 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Wasn't there a debate about getting rid of citizenship and replacing it with voter registration? Yes there was, and it was just changing semantics. Right now we have "residents" and a "citizens." That debate was to change that to "citizens" and "registered voters." The simple fact is that the forums and the region are different communities. There's nothing stopping people from coming over here from the RMB, or the other way around. RMB activity is great and should be encouraged. But participating on the RMB and the participating on the forums are two different things.
(06-10-2014, 02:21 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: We need to stop with this idea that citizenship is an inherent right of anybody in the region. Residents have a right to apply for citizenship and have their application be treated equally with all others. Nobody has a right to keep citizenship once they have it, if they don't meet the requirements. Nobody has a right to automatic citizenship just for having a nation in TSP. Citizenship is a perk. It's a special title you get, with special privileges, for actually participating in TSP's off-site government. That's not a bad thing. It's how our government has always worked. You had me up until the end. This is not how the government as always worked. TSP historically recognized the various aspects of the the community. Elections are held every 120 days, no? So 90 days inactive would make sure people aren't only here for elections.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(06-10-2014, 02:26 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: Yes there was, and it was just changing semantics. It's not semantics. It is about recognising that nations on the RMB are citizens too. It is much more reasonable to say that you need to be active here to be a registered voter than to tell someone that they can be active in the actual region and not be a citizen at all. For the record, I'm opposed to removing the 2 post requirement, because I don't like the idea of having people who otherwise don't participate keeping their citizenship. They can always reapply when they feel that they are ready for it, and even if not, as registered users they have access to most of the forum and can participate that way. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
(06-10-2014, 02:30 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: It's not semantics. It is about recognising that nations on the RMB are citizens too. It is much more reasonable to say that you need to be active here to be a registered voter than to tell someone that they can be active in the actual region and not be a citizen at all. We could call it "ducks" and a "potatoes." It is semantics, because the requirements are the same. It doesn't matter what you call the groups, there are still two and will still always be two distinct communities in all GCRs. Those who only participate on site, and those who participate off site. This is exactly how that debate went down before. (06-10-2014, 02:27 PM)Tsunamy Wrote: You had me up until the end. This is not how the government as always worked. TSP historically recognized the various aspects of the the community. Since the advent of TSP's off-site forum government, has there ever been an election held on the forums and the RMB? How many laws have been passed on the RMB? How many people have held government positions without having a forum account? Recognizing that our government is based on the forums, and thus requiring forum participation to participate in government, does not mean we don't recognize that the on-site community is still important. (06-10-2014, 02:35 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: Since the advent of TSP's off-site forum government, has there ever been an election held on the forums and the RMB?Until 2011 Delegate elections were conducted entirely on-site. Until 2013 they were split between the forum and site. Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png) |
![[+]](/images/collapse_collapsed.png "[+]")
PREVIOUS ROLES | Users browsing this thread: |
| 1 Guest(s) |