| Amendment to Citizenship Removals 1.2.7 of the Charter |
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We have less than a 1% of our region participating in our forum community. That's what GCRs do wrong that other regions do right.
Then you think it's cheery and proper to excuse the lack of participation. We can redesign the region so that not as much participation is done on the forum - we don't NEED such a terrible divide between the forum and regional community. Instead, you seem to want to promote bad design and hold it up as the golden standard.
I don't like nice speeches as must as I like proactive people. If you think that something has to be done for the region then step up and do your part.
No, I am not being sarcastic or cynical or anything. I really meant what I said, Unibot. If you have ideas and want to help us improve the region, then I want to hear it, and work with you on that. Everyone is welcome to help, and even the smallent contribution can do wonders for the region. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
(06-22-2014, 12:14 AM)Unibot Wrote: We have less than a 1% of our region participating in our forum community. That's what GCRs do wrong that other regions do right. We don't recruit people to join our region. They're automatically placed into it. UCRs actively recruit others with their online communities, so their regional populations will obviously have a better ratio of their game-side to their forum-side. We have 4300 people in this region. If we can get 1% of those to join our forum community -- that's 43 people -- and be as active as all of us in this thread are, then that's an amazing feat. But it's no great failing if we can't do that. It's not hard to believe that 99% of the people who join NationStates have no interest in the niche part the game that is GCR governance.
May I trust that TRR will be engaging in a radical reform of forum governance in that case Uni?
Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png)
(06-22-2014, 12:14 AM)Unibot Wrote: We have less than a 1% of our region participating in our forum community. That's what GCRs do wrong that other regions do right. On the previous page of this debate I asked you "How?" and it was conveniently ignored. Unlike Kris who's trying to be jovial about this, I'm going to tell you to put up ideas or stfu. I don't appreciate these vague generalities when all they do is criticize the region.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
Well, first things first:
1. Traditionally, The South Pacific found ways to involve the region in the process of choosing our new leader. The "Brave Little Toaster" system had its flaws, but moving to a purely forum-based vote has cut off all of that political participation among our region which used to occur when our democracy was region-based or a mixed forum-region system. It's entirely possible to run elections via an HTML interface that is simple to use and just as secure as our current voting if not more secure. This way we get the participation of our older democratic model, without the incumbent bias (which used to be problematic and unfair). This HTML interface used in conjunction with an auto-telegram has been successfully used in the 2012 Cabinet Elections under Eluvatar in The North Pacific. Here are some examples of what Solm, Elu and I built for the ballot. Example 1, Example 2. We have coders in The South Pacific - we could make something like this or even something better! 2. Despite Belschaft's snark, I am trying to push democratic reforms in The Rejected Realms under the same sort of lines (i.e., improving political participation region-wise). Some way in which I'm hoping to improve the "gap" is to create a Folk Assembly on the Regional Message Board (RMB). Folk Assemblies discuss issues relevant to the region every Friday (or some other day) with discussion lead by a enthusiastic speaker. The minutes of the open discussion would be recorded and given to the Regional Assembly to help direct us on issues important to the region as a whole. 3. Earlier, Belschaft (?) had suggested using the poll system as a referendum system. I've found in The Rejected Realms that regional polls can really help find very divergent opinions and contribute a lot to discussions in the Regional Assembly. For example, The Rejected Realms was unsure how to respond to cross-regional RMB postings - most forum citizens wanted to close the RMB off, while most regional residents (according to a recent poll) wanted to keep the RMB open to all. Discussion on the RMB found that our residents were open and more laid-back on the issue and enjoyed hearing the interregional dialogue - while the forum community tended to be a bit more conservative on the issue and perhaps cynical. Ultimately however, a lot of our forum community (like TSP) does not participate on the RMB, so it doesn't affect them as much as it does regular RMB-users. We're now trying out cross-regional RMB posting in a trial-period and so far, the results have been positive. The South Pacific, similarly, had a very prolonged debate on Adspam. It would have been helpful to have held the debate among RMB users too. I know when TRR did a referendum on the issue on our regional poll, we found a very sizable majority didn't really even care about adspam, which paints a different picture than the forum community who saw adspam as a pestering annoyance. There have been candidates in GCRs who have ran entire political campaigns on "getting tough on adspam". 4. Glen-Rhodes says we don't recruit for The South Pacific and that's part of the problem. We don't recruit. Believe it or not, approaching a player more casually in The South Pacific and saying, "Hey _______, we'd love it if you joined our forums. There's a lot you can do here...", does in fact get results. Albeit slowly. But it does get results. I would see even a 15 member increase as a major success. That would be increasing our Assembly's participating members by 50% with an influx of members native to The South Pacific, who otherwise would have stayed quietly in the background of their own region. 5. Culture tends to be regional-based. When we think culture, we tend to think of how to improve the culture of the forum. Spam games and roleplay and what not are the general focus of this department. But culture doesn't need to be "forum-based". You can see a great improvement in regional participation and cohesion by finding ways to connect the whole region around activities. - The Pacific has a very successful Praetorian Guard (which would be totally illegal in TSP - but I'm suggesting the logic behind the PG could be used for a program in TSP), which encourages nations to report rule-breakers to authorities. As a collective "hole digging" activity, it has been running since Francos Spain established in 2003 and will probably outlive all of us at the rate it is going. - Another Pacifician example of a collective activity would be their People's Puppet (also a Francos Spain invention). It's a nation that is controlled by the region and its issues are decided by a regional vote. Balder has since adopted this as an activity. Again, I'm not saying The South Pacific needs to adopt *this* specific activity, but I'm just establishing how the logic of collective cultural activities works in practice. - The East Pacific has established regional holidays, which The North Pacific and The Rejected Realms also adopted. The Rejected Realms celebrated RRA Day through a number of regional-based cultural activities - we're currently supporting England in the World Cup and recognizing WorldPride this week. I've got activities already planned for International Women's Month, Kandarin Day and even the New Horizons Pluto fly-by next year. - Another Pacifician example of a collective activity: more recently, The New Pacific Order has been promoting the "Franco" as a regional currency with the potentially achievable goal of having the "Franco" as the most popular currency in The Pacific. - You need to be creative! Texas has been running breakfast buffets on their RMB for a decade. Democratic Socialist Assembly has been encouraging players to complete issues on a more progressive basis with the hope of dominating the Regional Censuses (Could TSP aim to have the most "Happy Citizens"?). Ulthar has done this on a more extensive scale for nearly a decade. Little traditions like these stick with people and draw them in to participate. - #4 and #5 can be pursued together as issues - recruitment is the ultimate collective "hole-digging" exercise. You never run out of people to recruit in a GCR.
We have a prolongued debate on adspam? There hasn't been a single thread about it ever since I got here. o.O
While we are at it, I would like to point out that I have no intention of relaxing the current policy regarding adspam. Delegates in the future might have a more relaxed policy, but I will continue to suppress it and eject recruiters. Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
1. Yes, we can do that, and I've suggested it before, but not under the misguided idea that it would increase community growth or participation. Sending out 4300 ballots and having a lot of responses is not a good measure of growth or participation. I think it's fair to assume that most of us don't want people to show up just to vote. We want engagement, not raw numbers. At the end of the day, no matter what system we use for voting, citizenship will be required, and acquiring citizenship requires being a member of the forum community. That is the case in TNP as well. They just have a different name for citizens.
2. Go ahead and start "Folk Assemblies." Nobody is stopping people on the RMB from discussing regional issues. I imagine, though, that they don't really care and won't really see the point, and the discussions would probably be unorganized and largely useless to the Assembly. 3. We've used regional polls, as well. Our FIFA team has been decided by regional poll. We could decide the RMB posting thing through regional poll. But when it comes to things like Charter amendments, new treaties, declarations of war, etc., I don't think the regional poll is an appropriate mechanism for those decisions, and neither does any other GCR. 5. While that all sounds nice for game-side people, I don't see what connection those have to forum communities. How has any of that stuff 'bridged the gap'? As far as I'm aware, The Pacific, TEP, TNP, and TRR are not exceptionally different from TSP when it comes to how we've organized the on-site and off-site communities. (06-22-2014, 01:58 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: 1. Yes, we can do that, and I've suggested it before, but not under the misguided idea that it would increase community growth or participation. Sending out 4300 ballots and having a lot of responses is not a good measure of growth or participation. I think it's fair to assume that most of us don't want people to show up just to vote. We want engagement, not raw numbers. At the end of the day, no matter what system we use for voting, citizenship will be required, and acquiring citizenship requires being a member of the forum community. That is the case in TNP as well. They just have a different name for citizens. Getting the vote out to citizens is the only to ensure candidates focus their campaigns not only on the forum community, but the entire region - which is ultimately good for TSP's democracy. Quote:2. Go ahead and start "Folk Assemblies." Nobody is stopping people on the RMB from discussing regional issues. I imagine, though, that they don't really care and won't really see the point, and the discussions would probably be unorganized and largely useless to the Assembly. Fantastic outlook. Quote:3. We've used regional polls, as well. Our FIFA team has been decided by regional poll. We could decide the RMB posting thing through regional poll. But when it comes to things like Charter amendments, new treaties, declarations of war, etc., I don't think the regional poll is an appropriate mechanism for those decisions, and neither does any other GCR. I'm suggesting plebiscites, not binding referenda. If we're going to argue everything is inappropriate for polls, maybe we should also just separate the forum community entirely from the region. We could have two forums - one for the region and one for your ego. Quote:5. While that all sounds nice for game-side people, I don't see what connection those have to forum communities. How has any of that stuff 'bridged the gap'? As far as I'm aware, The Pacific, TEP, TNP, and TRR are not exceptionally different from TSP when it comes to how we've organized the on-site and off-site communities. The South Pacific is one of the worst offenders of focusing almost all government activity on the forum. This creates a situation where the in-game community is in need of organization, activities and leadership, while the forum community is over-administrated, a political bee-hive and a miserable snakepit altogether.
First, thank you Unibot for offering real suggestions. Second, I'm just going to number these instead of quoting the ish out of previous posts.
1. I have a major problem switching to a "democratically" elected delegate via anything other than the forums. (In truth, I don't like it on the forums, either.) However, it would be really easy to rig the voting system and overturn the government. Like -- beyond easy. I wouldn't be opposed to returning to a Brave Little Toaster situation, but asking the sum total of nations in the region to vote is simply a recipe for trouble. 2. Now -- we don't need fighting over this. But, I think this might be something for out newly elected MoRA to weigh in on. GB -- any thoughts? 3. As far as I can tell, plebiscites and referenda are pretty much the same thing. 4. Both Kris and I have at times attempted to get more people to the forum. I don't disagree that we could have more of it, but it had certainly be attempted as of late. 5. Two of your examples are from authoritarian rule and wouldn't quite work here. (But, we've previously asked people to moderate the RMB.) We *do* have holidays in the Code of Law, perhaps we could come up with some better activities for them. I do, however, like the idea of a regional nation. Again: Thoughts, GB?
-tsunamy
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