Fellow Legislators,

the Cabinet has unanimously agreed to enact a few proscriptions. We're putting them here for a few days as a heads up before we make them formal, and I encourage all of you to ask critical questions and raise your objections now. The criteria mentioned below relate to Article 1 of the Proscription Act, which lay out the Acts of Hostility that establish eligibility for proscription.

Ever-Wandering Souls of The Black Hawks (criteria 1, 3, 4)

• Outright considers TSP an enemy force as-is
  
• Attempted to manipulate the SPSF in 2016 by using unrelated incidents to get Imki
  
• Is the singular reason why TWP proscribed his entire region, relating to ill-suited conduct during a joint raid.
  
• Is the singular reason why TEP (an ally) proscribed his entire region, relating to blackmailing the EPSA military commander
  
• Sensitive intelligence suggests he has conspired, or is conspiring to, overthrow the Coalition and "cleanse" it.
  

Funkadelia of Lone Wolves United (criteria 1, 2, 5)

• Pattern of gaining citizenship in regions to promote factional politics, including in 2016 when he gained Legislator status to promote defender politics
  
• Pattern of voter importation in at least Lazarus dating back to at least 2016
  
• Couped and griefed Lazarus
  

Lamb Stone of Lone Wolves United (criteria 1, 5)

• Co-conspirator of Funkadelia's various efforts starting in 2016
  
• Couped and griefed Lazarus
  

Evil Wolf of Lone Wolves United (criteria 1, 5)

• Pattern of GCR subversion and invasion dating back a decade
  
• Couped and griefed Lazarus
  

McMannia of HYDRA and The Ragerian Imperium (criteria 1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

• The founder of HYDRA and TRI
  
• Mastermind of all hostilities towards TSP emanating from HYDRA or TRI, and does not fear utilizing any and all resources of those regions for such purposes.
  

The organization HYDRA and its successor organization The Ragerian Imperium (criteria 1, 2, 3)

• Last Summer, HYDRA launched a direct attack on TSP, attempting to displace Delegate Drugged Monkeys in order to distract the South Pacific from its efforts in fighting against the HYDRA-backed coup of Lazarus
  
• Intel suggests that hatred of the South Pacific is deliberately fostered within HYDRA and TRI amongst new members.
  
• Sensitive Intel suggests that HYDRA/TRI had a Legislator planted in TSP for the purpose of stealing internal logs and information.
  

We'd love to hear your comments on these.

Reply

Prime Minister/fellow Ministers:

Is the Cabinet able to provide further details as to the intelligence gathered vis a vis Ever-Wandering Souls and the Legislator planted in TSP - including:

• when the Cabinet learnt about these acts,
  
• whether the Cabinet believes such information to be current 
  
• whether the Cabinet will take further action apart from proscription, in coordination with the CRS, LegComm or judiciary in response to these individuals 
  

These are particularly serious acts, and detrimental to the security of our region if true, so I'd appreciate if the Prime Minister or fellow Ministers will be able to provide more insight.

Furthermore, will the Prime Minister or fellow Ministers clarify if McMannia and the former TNP Delegate McMasterdonia are two unrelated individuals, just to avoid ambiguity on this front?

[Image: 9ehfkQV.png]

the island league

Former Offices

Chair of the Assembly - February 2016-August 2016
Deputy Chair of the Assembly - June 2015-February 2016
Justice of High Court of the South Pacific - December 2014-April 2015
Minister of Regional Affairs
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deputy Minister of Regional Affairs

RP Information

President Tobias Murray
President of the Federal Democratic Republic of Awesomiasa

Simon Harawira

Permanent Representative to the Southern Cooperation Organisation

Federal Democratic Republic of Awesomiasa

(This post was last modified: 06-14-2018, 11:42 AM by Awe.)

Reply

Prime Minister/fellow Ministers:

Is the Cabinet able to provide further details as to the intelligence gathered vis a vis Ever-Wandering Souls and the Legislator planted in TSP - including:

• when the Cabinet learnt about these acts,
  
• whether the Cabinet believes such information to be current 
  
• whether the Cabinet will take further action apart from proscription, in coordination with the CRS, LegComm or judiciary in response to these individuals 
  

These are particularly serious acts, and detrimental to the security of our region if true, so I'd appreciate if the Prime Minister or fellow Ministers will be able to provide more insight.

This intelligence is unusually sensitive, which is why I (unfortunately) cannot say as much as I'd like. It's already known that the Motion of No Confidence was leaked to some circles outside of TSP even before it was brought up in campaigns.

What I can say is that the evidence is clear and convincing, that there is a known plant who is no longer masked as Legislator, and that there are ongoing efforts.

Furthermore, will the Prime Minister or fellow Ministers clarify if McMannia and the former TNP Delegate McMasterdonia are two unrelated individuals, just to avoid ambiguity on this front?

They are two unrelated individuals.

Reply

Just a followup question:

Will the Cabinet consider proscribing The Lone Wolves United (LWU), considering several persons being proscribed hold membership in the organisation?

[Image: 9ehfkQV.png]

the island league

Former Offices

Chair of the Assembly - February 2016-August 2016
Deputy Chair of the Assembly - June 2015-February 2016
Justice of High Court of the South Pacific - December 2014-April 2015
Minister of Regional Affairs
Minister of Foreign Affairs
Deputy Minister of Regional Affairs

RP Information

President Tobias Murray
President of the Federal Democratic Republic of Awesomiasa

Simon Harawira

Permanent Representative to the Southern Cooperation Organisation

Federal Democratic Republic of Awesomiasa

Reply

Just a followup question:

Will the Cabinet consider proscribing The Lone Wolves United (LWU), considering several persons being proscribed hold membership in the organisation?

Not at this time. The question we asked ourselves was if an organization is intrinsically part of hostile behavior, or if there are members in it that are displaying it. In the case of HYDRA/TRI, it is obvious that the hostility is intrinsic to the organization. In the case of LWU or TBH, we saw it as individuals of the organization and not the organization itself.

Reply

I can offer my services as Intelligence Coordinator for the CRS to verify and describe the intelligence backing these proscriptions, if the raw intelligence cannot be shared.
 

Just a followup question:

Will the Cabinet consider proscribing The Lone Wolves United (LWU), considering several persons being proscribed hold membership in the organisation?

Not at this time. The question we asked ourselves was if an organization is intrinsically part of hostile behavior, or if there are members in it that are displaying it. In the case of HYDRA/TRI, it is obvious that the hostility is intrinsic to the organization. In the case of LWU or TBH, we saw it as individuals of the organization and not the organization itself.   

For what it's worth, I think this is wrong. The idea that sometimes there are only individual members who are problems is good, but the application in the case of LWU is poor. Did they or did they not support Wolf's takeover of Lazarus? Is there any serious argument to be made that the LWU wouldn't listen to and follow Wolf's orders, if he tried to orchestrate an attack on TSP? You're seeking to ban 3 of LWU's high-profile members, here. Why is it unreasonable to believe that their behavior isn't representative of LWU as a whole?

(This post was last modified: 06-18-2018, 09:06 AM by sandaoguo.)

Reply

I can offer my services as Intelligence Coordinator for the CRS to verify and describe the intelligence backing these proscriptions, if the raw intelligence cannot be shared.
 

Just a followup question:

Will the Cabinet consider proscribing The Lone Wolves United (LWU), considering several persons being proscribed hold membership in the organisation?

Not at this time. The question we asked ourselves was if an organization is intrinsically part of hostile behavior, or if there are members in it that are displaying it. In the case of HYDRA/TRI, it is obvious that the hostility is intrinsic to the organization. In the case of LWU or TBH, we saw it as individuals of the organization and not the organization itself.   

For what it's worth, I think this is wrong. The idea that sometimes there are only individual members who are problems is good, but the application in the case of LWU is poor. Did they or did they not support Wolf's takeover of Lazarus? Is there any serious argument to be made that the LWU wouldn't listen to and follow Wolf's orders, if he tried to orchestrate an attack on TSP? You're seeking to ban 3 of LWU's high-profile members, here. Why is it unreasonable to believe that their behavior isn't representative of LWU as a whole?

It's ... not that easy to tell, honestly. Unlike TBH and HYDRA, where it was obvious in each case, it's kinda hard to judge here. The propaganda slated this as an obvious LWU takeover, because - well, one shouldn't be in the propaganda business if one isn't taking advantage of that obvious angle! But in practice, there wasn't WA movement worth mentioning, and LWU actually went raiding with somebody else in the time of the Wolfist theme. So that makes it hard to tell.

EW, Lamb, and Funk hold no position at all in LWU at this time (except, obviously, EW as Founder). The current Khan (highest position) is Green aka Elysium Station. This is similar to TBH, where Souls is in a high-ranking position but ultimately subservient to the Council of Hawks. We've had TSP members in good faith in the past that were in these regions, and as far as I'm aware, neither region fosters intrinsic or systemic hostility towards TSP. Compare this to HYDRA, where McMannia is Founder and high-ranking member, has used HYDRA resources to attack TSP and TSP allies, and where the region itself is systemically hostile to TSP.

TL;DR: Yeah, you could make an argument for it. But it's not clear-cut, and we erred on the side of less.

Reply

I would argue that Wolf, Lamb, and Funk used LWU resources to take over Lazarus. They used the name and the imagery, with the support of LWU itself. To argue that Wolf isn’t the leader of LWU is really unconvincing. If he wanted to be Khan tomorrow, he could, because it’s his organization. It’s kind of like saying HEM isn’t the leader of Europeia when he’s not the elected President.

If LWU didn’t disavow Wolf using them, that’s complicity. That’s a willingness of a raider organization to be seen supporting the takeover of a GCR. I don’t see a meaningful difference just because they didn’t commit troops when none were needed (as Funk was already Delegate when he went rogue), as far as security is concerned.

My overall opinion on the LWU issue is that these 3 individual proscriptions are missing the forest for the trees. An organization that lends its name to a coup and hostile takeover, because its founder is leading it, is a threat as a whole. If Wolf did need WA support, he almost certainly would have gotten it from LWU, wouldn’t he?

It’s better than nothing, but it’s still a half measure.

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(This post was last modified: 06-19-2018, 07:54 AM by sandaoguo.)

Reply

Were there any dissenting arguments that we should understand?

Considering that we have repealed the Laz treaty, and have had relationships with LWU in the past, is there a benefit we expect to see from proscribing these two the LWU members? Is this something that we see that they are a specific threat to TSP?

Evil Wolf in particular has had a long history in GCRs that I would argue is more complicated than just couping.

The 16th Delegate of The South Pacific

Reply

Were there any dissenting arguments that we should understand?

Not necessarily a dissenting argument, but we discussed whether to include Evil Wolf (and he wasn't in the lineup initially at all), first because there is contemporary evidence to suggest he was not fond of the Wolfist takeover, and second, because...

Evil Wolf in particular has had a long history in GCRs that I would argue is more complicated than just couping.

... that ^.

Considering that we have repealed the Laz treaty, and have had relationships with LWU in the past, is there a benefit we expect to see from proscribing these two the LWU members? Is this something that we see that they are a specific threat to TSP?

Both had been TSP members before, and I know in the case of Funkadelia that it was with the intent to promote Defender politics at a time when he was FRA Arch-Chancellor. This is a continuing pattern of behavior and, in my opinion, anybody shamelessly peddling any political ideology (be it defender, raider, indy, imp, whatnot) without regard for TSP should have no place in TSP.

Reply