I still think that some form of government service record is also needed. Prove to the region at large that you are willing to put in the time and energy, and that being the delegate of the greatest region isnt just some conquest.
Ive found over the years that most of the best delegates we've had have been those who have no qualms about working their way up the ladder by holding an elected office before rising to the highest in-game position. Its those people who take the time to get to know the people who make up this region, and who work to make their mark BEFORE they run for delegate.

I agree. In fact, to quote the restaurant at the end of the universe by Douglas Adams, "Anyone who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be given the job".

Which does not mean that we should stop giving people the delegate, but rather means that people who have taken the time to work themselves up the ladder are usually less inclined to become the delegate (after all, they have a pretty good job) than the people who just want to shoot to the top instantly. Which means, they give much more energy into advertising for the job.

Or, to reword the quote, "Anyone who wants to become president should on no account be given the job" because those who want to become president are usually the least suited to it.

The only solution (that is fair) in my eyes is to make sure that all people who apply for delegacy are only the people who know intimately how the region is running, and how they can help it, which (incidentally) are usually the people who least want to become delegate because of how hard they know the job is.

And, one other thing, this should not be done by endorsements. Anyone can endo swap. Anyone can ask for endorsements, endorse other people. In fact, the people who actively endorse all the time may also be the people who want to (and are most capable of) becoming the delegate.

(This post was last modified: 12-02-2018, 07:56 AM by Jebediah.)

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Moving this along, because it's very important.

@Rebeltopia - could the service record be fulfilled by the new CoI requirement in the Elections Act?

@Jebediah - I agree. Sometimes we get lucky and get great people that both want to do it and have a record of trustworthiness and performance, i.e. Seraph; we should make sure that people like Seraph are Delegate.

Recap (hasn't changed so far):

• The CRS and LegComm are dissolved.
  
• The DC (Defense Council) is formed, consisting of high-influence high-endorsement nations.
  
• The CSI (Council on Security and Intelligence) is formed, consisting of trusted individuals with, ideally, experience in regional security.
  
• The DC's requirements are the mechanical requirements of the current CRS (maybe slightly adjusted to fit with the times), plus approval by the CSI.
  
• The DC tracks and looks after things like SWAN and enforces the endocap as per CSI recommendation.
  
• The Delegate must be a legislator and either on the DC or be otherwise eligible for DC.
  
• The CSI handles Legislator Applications.
  

Questions for the crowd (as before, though slightly expanded)

• Do we want a chairman/chairwoman for the CSI and the DC? If so, should this be "the most senior willing member" or something else?
  
• How do we want to appoint? (My idea: Generalize appointments to be led by cabinet in conjunction with the institution to be appointed to)
  
• Would we want to formalize a separation between junior and senior CSI members? (Reason: It allows lowering the bar for people getting into the CSI, making it more broadly accessible plus as an opening for cultivating new security-smart and security-conscious individuals that were born and raised in TSP)
  

[/quote]

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@Rebeltopia - could the service record be fulfilled by the new CoI requirement in the Elections Act?

Id still like to see some tangible TSP service record before someone is eligible to run for delegate. I wouldnt want some new to come in with a few friends and run the assembly vote...

Questions for the crowd (as before, though slightly expanded)

• Do we want a chairman/chairwoman for the CSI and the DC? If so, should this be "the most senior willing member" or something else?
  
• How do we want to appoint? (My idea: Generalize appointments to be led by cabinet in conjunction with the institution to be appointed to)
  
• Would we want to formalize a separation between junior and senior CSI members? (Reason: It allows lowering the bar for people getting into the CSI, making it more broadly accessible plus as an opening for cultivating new security-smart and security-conscious individuals that were born and raised in TSP)
  

• I wouldnt mind a provision for a chair for the CSI and the DC... If the committee gets big enough to need one, one can be elected by the committee
  
• your idea sounds good to me
  
• What would be the job of a Jr CSI??
  

"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011

One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels 
The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium

POSITIONS! POSITIONS, EVERYONE!!

TSP Forum & Discord Mod (4/19-Present)
Niagara Founder (2018-Present)

TSP MoRA (6/19-10/19)
TSP Asso. Justice (4/19-3/20)
TSP Deputy CoA (8/18 - 4/19)
TSP CSS (2/14-10/14)
TSP High Court Justice (4/14 - 5/14)
TSP CoA (12/13 - 3/14)
TSP Vice Delegate (8/13 - 12/13)
TSP MoS (9/12 - 12/12)
TSP MoFA (5/12 - 9/12)
TSP Forum Admin (2014)
TSP Craziest (12/12 - 3/13 -- 8/13 - 10/14 -- 2/15 - 6/17 -- 2/18 - 6/19)
Former Founder of Richmond
Former something in Europia
Former something in Balder

Quotes

5:19PM, 3/25/12
Hileville - LR and Rebel-topia are going to break the forum. 103 posts between the two of them so far today
LadyRebels - Yes we are implementing our evil plan to take over, just wanted ya'll to know that

---

[1:22 PM] Rebeltopia: *beats up the Polandar Bear*
[1:22 PM] Polandar Bear: :dizzy_face:
[1:23 PM] Polandar Bear: I'm endangered!
[1:23 PM] Rebeltopia: Endangered of being beated up!
[1:23 PM] Polander Bear: "Beated up" - Rebeltopia, 2018

---

[6:09 PM] Seraph: Who knew ORCS could be so informative?
[6:10 PM] Nakari: ORCS is truly ORChestral to our understanding of law.
[6:11 PM] Seraph: It's the ORCSue of all our legal knowledge.
[6:11 PM] Nakari: its magical. must have been created with sORCSery.

---

Nakarisaurus: islands are you just jealous of the boots
Roavin: islands is jealous of the entire package
Satan: ^ this
Islands of Unakarity: Im jealous of the wife, and that mora election a while back
Roavin: punnuendo both intended and not intended

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@Rebeltopia - could the service record be fulfilled by the new CoI requirement in the Elections Act?

Id still like to see some tangible TSP service record before someone is eligible to run for delegate. I wouldnt want some new to come in with a few friends and run the assembly vote...

I tend to agree with rebel here, that a tangible record, there are a number of ways to do that, is needed.

There is a concern that someone could come in with a bundle of 'friends', vote stack, and then the friends vanish.....

Questions for the crowd (as before, though slightly expanded)

• Do we want a chairman/chairwoman for the CSI and the DC? If so, should this be "the most senior willing member" or something else?
  
• How do we want to appoint? (My idea: Generalize appointments to be led by cabinet in conjunction with the institution to be appointed to)
  
• Would we want to formalize a separation between junior and senior CSI members? (Reason: It allows lowering the bar for people getting into the CSI, making it more broadly accessible plus as an opening for cultivating new security-smart and security-conscious individuals that were born and raised in TSP)
  

• I wouldnt mind a provision for a chair for the CSI and the DC... If the committee gets big enough to need one, one can be elected by the committee
  
• your idea sounds good to me
  
• What would be the job of a Jr CSI??
  

[/quote]

No issues with a chair or a focal point.
Appointments to csi by cabinet and del and existing CSI?
Is there an idea of what a junior CSI would do differently to a senior? Or Is there anyone by example who wouldn't meet the senior bar that you want want in the CSI? Not opposed to it, just would like clarification on the role?

Check my links.....

SWAN 4 Life
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1086117

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Do we want a chairman/chairwoman for the CSI and the DC? If so, should this be "the most senior willing member" or something else?
I wouldn't mind a chair, and election by members of the committee sounds good to me. However, for the sake of clarity, I will also state that I interpret chairmanship/chairwomanship as a largely procedural role that exists not to grant some committee members more power, but rather to make committee proceedings more organized.

How do we want to appoint?
I think, Roavin, your idea is pretty much spot on — all I have to add would be confirmation by the Assembly after the Cabinet and the DC/CSI itself nominate a member of the region.

Would we want to formalize a separation between junior and senior CSI members?
I'll pretty much echo Rebeltopia's and Beepee's arguments here — as far as I can tell junior CSI members are just less experienced, but that's pretty pointless
I'm not exacty sure what you mean by "cultivating new security-smart and security-conscious individuals that were born and raised in TSP," but I think I would definitely support a system that allows less experienced TSPers to join the CSI as junior members who can do everything senior members can do but are still being trained by the more experienced members. I'm also thinking that maybe junior members would also not be able to vote in their first month or something like that, the idea being that they're still learning the ropes? I'm not really sure how the CRS works right now or how the CSI would work, though, so I'm not sure if voting rights would be relevant.

Lastly, this may be an extremely minor and perhaps pointless change, but can we please make the acronym for the DC three letters long to match the CRS and CSI? I don't know, maybe something like Committee for Regional Defense (CRD)? (This is off the top of my head so it might not be very good.)

Esfalsa | NationStates | Wiki | Roleplay | Discord

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If there’s going to be a chair, my experience has been that the most senior (willing or otherwise) is not necessarily the best choice.

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Lastly, this may be an extremely minor and perhaps pointless change, but can we please make the acronym for the DC three letters long to match the CRS and CSI? I don't know, maybe something like Committee for Regional Defense (CRD)? (This is off the top of my head so it might not be very good.)

I'd be down to keeping a 3-letter acronym, but I feel like we've got too many committees going recently... can we please find another word here??

"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011

One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels 
The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium

POSITIONS! POSITIONS, EVERYONE!!

TSP Forum & Discord Mod (4/19-Present)
Niagara Founder (2018-Present)

TSP MoRA (6/19-10/19)
TSP Asso. Justice (4/19-3/20)
TSP Deputy CoA (8/18 - 4/19)
TSP CSS (2/14-10/14)
TSP High Court Justice (4/14 - 5/14)
TSP CoA (12/13 - 3/14)
TSP Vice Delegate (8/13 - 12/13)
TSP MoS (9/12 - 12/12)
TSP MoFA (5/12 - 9/12)
TSP Forum Admin (2014)
TSP Craziest (12/12 - 3/13 -- 8/13 - 10/14 -- 2/15 - 6/17 -- 2/18 - 6/19)
Former Founder of Richmond
Former something in Europia
Former something in Balder

Quotes

5:19PM, 3/25/12
Hileville - LR and Rebel-topia are going to break the forum. 103 posts between the two of them so far today
LadyRebels - Yes we are implementing our evil plan to take over, just wanted ya'll to know that

---

[1:22 PM] Rebeltopia: *beats up the Polandar Bear*
[1:22 PM] Polandar Bear: :dizzy_face:
[1:23 PM] Polandar Bear: I'm endangered!
[1:23 PM] Rebeltopia: Endangered of being beated up!
[1:23 PM] Polander Bear: "Beated up" - Rebeltopia, 2018

---

[6:09 PM] Seraph: Who knew ORCS could be so informative?
[6:10 PM] Nakari: ORCS is truly ORChestral to our understanding of law.
[6:11 PM] Seraph: It's the ORCSue of all our legal knowledge.
[6:11 PM] Nakari: its magical. must have been created with sORCSery.

---

Nakarisaurus: islands are you just jealous of the boots
Roavin: islands is jealous of the entire package
Satan: ^ this
Islands of Unakarity: Im jealous of the wife, and that mora election a while back
Roavin: punnuendo both intended and not intended

Reply

Lastly, this may be an extremely minor and perhaps pointless change, but can we please make the acronym for the DC three letters long to match the CRS and CSI? I don't know, maybe something like Committee for Regional Defense (CRD)? (This is off the top of my head so it might not be very good.)

I'd be down to keeping a 3-letter acronym, but I feel like we've got too many committees going recently... can we please find another word here?? 

Actually, I mistyped there — I meant Council for Regional Defense. That said, "Regional Defense Commission," "Defense Advisory Board," and "Panel on Regional Defense," for example, don't sound too bad. I would prefer, however, whatever we do decide, that it's consistent with the CSI (which is a "council" right now, which is why I mean to suggest "Council for Regional Defense").

Esfalsa | NationStates | Wiki | Roleplay | Discord

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I like RDC, though Frost might find that too weird. Let's not go with DAB, though, eh?

Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond!

Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

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I want the people in charge of this bill to know that I believe that the delegate provision is unnecessary and that it restricts newcomers, something we certainly don't want to do. And that it will not get my vote until this provision is removed.

Midwesterner. Political nerd. Chipotle enthusiast. 
Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister

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