Just because a few legislators agreed to something over Discord does not equate to having some sort of consensus. There are other legislators like myself who've been preoccupied with other matters to not catch these things over Discord. The fact that three legislators are questioning the utility of this proposal here on the forum is evidence that no such consensus exists.

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I don't see the need. I think most legislators are capable of construing the potential impacts of a bill for themselves. If the Chair needs someone to advise them on the rules, they can appoint someone, either on a permanent or ad-hoc basis. And literally any legislator can 'suggest edits and clarifications to existing legislation.'

This feels like creating another election for the sake of having one.

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A deputy is not a patronage post. If such a practice has developed then it should stop now. A deputy assists the principal in the discharge of their duties and should be every bit as qualified as the position demands.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
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Just because a few legislators agreed to something over Discord does not equate to having some sort of consensus. There are other legislators like myself who've been preoccupied with other matters to not catch these things over Discord. The fact that three legislators are questioning the utility of this proposal here on the forum is evidence that no such consensus exists.

Be that as it may.

DELEGATE MINISTER to the SOUTH PACIFIC
from the FRR OF ADRIATICAN
CULTURE LEAD - NSCW
LEGISLATOR of the ASSEMBLY

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A deputy is not a patronage post. If such a practice has developed then it should stop now. A deputy assists the principal in the discharge of their duties and should be every bit as qualified as the position demands.

In your opinion.

DELEGATE MINISTER to the SOUTH PACIFIC
from the FRR OF ADRIATICAN
CULTURE LEAD - NSCW
LEGISLATOR of the ASSEMBLY

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Please quote the relevant conversation from discord here so that all of us can read it.  


Agreeing with Kris - I am not sure whom you are referring to in terms of "special treatment" but that isn't the case. Deputies have been appointed by the Minister or Chair for ages and unless I am grossly mistaken, there hasn't been any issues.

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Please quote the relevant conversation from discord here so that all of us can read it.

This is the link to that conversation if you want to read it on Discord.

Alternatively, you can read my transcript of it.

Vanderpoole: SUBMITTED (note from me: this was originally a description of the proposal before being edited to say "SUBMITTED")
Vanderpoole: I'm convinced that this is necessary
ProfessorHenn: For why?
Vanderpoole: > For why?
@ProfessorHenn HENN! how are you? Haven't seen you in awhile.

To answer your question; between what occurred a few weeks ago with the "simple majority" debacle, and the inconsistencies and the fogginess in the legislation Hya keeps finding, I think a Parliamentarian, tasked with what I specified, might solve these issues with minimal effort, whilst relieving strain on future individuals within the current infrastructure.
ProfessorHenn: Could we not fulfil the first half of the Parliamentarian’s duties by placing the burden on those submitting proposals?
ProfessorHenn: And the second half is available to all legislators.
Vanderpoole: Yeah, but will they do that? (because clearly they're not already), and if we do, won't that discourage people from submitting, if they have to sift through all that to catch those things themselves?

And yes, it is available to all legislators, but an effective usage of that requires all, or at least more, legislators, to scan existing leg for what was specified (which isn't happening [Hya seems to be the only one doing that atm]).
ProfessorHenn: Both of these could be taken care of by a proactive legislator or legislators who are looking for this, without having to create a new elected office.
ProfessorHenn: If you’re recommending their creation that means that it’s not being taken care of, but still.
Islas: Heres an argument for
Islas: The parliamentarian could be like the wa people who accept proposals, and is a good landing spot for Hya after her chair term :stuck_out_tongue:
ProfessorHenn: Here’s a counter proposal, solely for your consideration.
ProfessorHenn: The Parliamentarian is appointed by the Chair, to serve as long as they want.
Islas: Instead of fixing anything we could ban people from reading the laws too closely and pass a resolution that things work even if there's a technical issue :stuck_out_tongue:
Vanderpoole: I considered having that be the case, but then, Henn, thought it would guard against a bad Chair dismissing every parliamentarian they disagreed with, if they were elected.
Islas: They could be elected along with the chair in a joint ticket thing
Islas: So its also democratic
Islas: But linked to the chair
ProfessorHenn: But, they’re both impartial roles, and it honestly sounds like the Parliamentarian may as well be a Deputy Chair with a different hat.
Islas: "The perfect spot for islas"
Vanderpoole: #haberdasher4parliamentarian
Vanderpoole: > They could be elected along with the chair in a joint ticket thing
@islands_of_unity I don't hate this, honestly.
ProfessorHenn: Does it need to be elected?
Islas: Not really but why not
Islas: Democratic methods should be the default
Islas: And honestly as long as its linked to the chair and the election is at the same time, its not much extra work
Islas: This isnt an issue that comes up too often, but i think it's fun
Islas: Like you said it could be like a deputy chair with a new hat
ProfessorHenn: It sounds like it is, which means it’s not really crucial we have to turn it into elected office.
[...]
Islas: Anyway, i dont see why its too much of a hassle to just include these candidates to the chair elections
Vanderpoole: nods to the above, emphatically
Vanderpoole:[/b[ But, here's a question, if this gets tracked in with the Chair election, will that require an amendment to whatever bill articulates how the Chair is elected?
[b]Vanderpoole: Btw, that's a question a Parliamentarian could be called in to answer. #justsayin
ProfessorHenn: It just doesn’t feel like a position that needs electing. I don’t mind if it exists either way.

I have been things

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Be that as it may.

In your opinion.

To be honest I find this attitude quite offputting. If that's how the rest of this debate is going to go we might as well motion, second and get over with the vote.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

(This post was last modified: 11-16-2020, 03:09 PM by Kris Kringle.)

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Be that as it may.

 

In your opinion.

To be honest I find this attitude quite offputting. If that's how the rest of this debate is going to go we might as well motion, second and get over with the vote.

It's always a sign of great things to come when someone who joined the Assembly a month ago acts in a manner like this.

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Be that as it may.

 

In your opinion.

To be honest I find this attitude quite offputting. If that's how the rest of this debate is going to go we might as well motion, second and get over with the vote.

It's always a sign of great things to come when someone who joined the Assembly a month ago acts in a manner like this.

You're right, but, just ignore it. Not really necessary to reply like that. Kris started off right, but the rest of it is just passive aggressive nonsense.

Vandy, you shouldn't be curt and give zero substance replies because others disagree with you or dislike the proposal/discussion. If you don't like it, ignore it or actually engage in debate.

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