The things that are important to you in this era will not be of the same paramount concern to newer members, nor will it be based on the same experience and perspective.

I find this a very disappointing attitude from anyone in this region, let alone an elected official. We are talking about a coup against this region, not a bill that failed to pass. I almost hoped that, just for a change, it should be taken seriously, but evidently that was too much to ask.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
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People caring about things less the further away it is in history/the less they were involved/the less they know about it is... kinda just how knowledge of history works, really. It'll be much faster here because people join and leave far more quickly than they leave real life, and there isn't a huge amount of documentation/continuing education about it.

(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 10:50 AM by Nakari.)

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What I am concerned with here is this debate and discussion did not happen due to no available senior OWL staff. But in the wider scope of the OWL practices and processes, it really cannot happen. This is all things I've said in both the OWL channel and Cabinet chambers before, but it's worth saying again. Even in an ideal situation where the Director and their senior staff are present to initiate a vote, debate and banter on World Assembly topics are hard pressed to take place on a distant RMB. Most parties who participate in this system get their pings from the discord or the gameside notification, drop in their vote (often without accompanying opinion), and depart, never to give it a second thought.

While I appreciate the initiative to involve the gameside community through an RMB, in situations like this where some citizens believe it constitutes a matter of regional pride or obligation to establish certain postures, if we cannot have that reasoned discussion and get the communication out, the system is unworkable. That's our cultural capital being evaporated and our ability to contribute to the argument kneecapped. Having seen this current system already exploited to manipulate us, I have even less desire to give it the benefit of the doubt.

In addition to this, the current template of our actual IFV is not particularly aligned to our region's agenda either. While we do have a short section on analysis, often summarising the few voter opinions we have, there is no comprehensive argument about what our own experienced WA staff believe is the real dilemma of a proposal. We supplement these with opinions collected from foreign regions, often citing influencers with their own agendas that more inexperienced staff may not recognise. Together, they form a single document, where TSP opinions may be weak or incoherent, and foreign opinions may appear more credible.

Even in perfect conditions, these opinions do not advance the international conversation on the topic, they just regurgitate and recycle what's already been said. This, too, restricts our own culture and muzzles our influence. At the same time, this largely bureaucratic and procedural work does not allow us to grow our own World Assembly authors-to-be, because it generates minimal practical experience engaging with WA topics, directly.

For these reasons, I believe that systemic reform of OWL is prudent, and I have made arguments in Cabinet chambers to this end.

I would appreciate if these arguments and discussions were also brought to the current staff of OWL. Especially those of us who played a part in designing the system as it stands currently may have some useful suggestions on what and how to change.

OWL was designed and began as a highly open, collaborative enterprise. I would hate for the Cabinet to turn it into a top-down, Cabinet-dependent bureaucracy simply because they do now have formal oversight of the body.

~ Aumeltopia ~

Raccoons are bandits! First they steal your food . . . and then your heart/identity!

(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 11:17 AM by Somyrion.)

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NOTICE NOTICE NOTICE-- 

On 11 July 2021 an exchange took place on #legislators-lounge that should of been a personal exchange between two parties. The result were accusations that were partly based upon misunderstandings and a malfunction in some of our systems. As a result of the exchange a recommendation was made by two of the deputies of the Prime Ministers office to relocate the exchange to a private space. This is an extract from #legislators-lounge of the motion and seconding to relocate the thread;

Times shown are US Central-Standard-Time (from my personal Discord logs)
Intermediate discussions have been redacted for brevity, this posting is only to document the debate between relevant cabinet members and the two deputies of the prime minister who proposed and seconded each other to confirm the request to move the topic to private.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Black Widow — Yesterday at 8:42 PMI just want to say that I am beyond disappointed that an internal dispute is being aired out with eyes watching from NSGP. I was about to motion to move the thread to Private Halls until I found out that a link to the thread was shared for everyone in NSGP to see. I'm gonna be really blunt and say that this dispute is really none of their fucking business, and the fact that they're discussing it on that server is outrageous.

HumanSanity — Yesterday at 8:43 PMI am not shocked by that fact though, but I agree with Jay this is an internal matter. However, that won't stop prying eyes
[8:43 PM]
It's just unfortunate NSGP is discussing it.
 
glen, queen mother — Yesterday at 8:45 PMthe thread can still be moved the private halls still 
 
Tishers — Yesterday at 8:49 PMYou can still partially "unscrew the light bulb" and remove it from some places. I am selectively ignoring the recent exchange because I understand emotions run high on that subject.

HumanSanity — Yesterday at 8:52 PMThe only Deputy is currently anjo
 
New Quebecshire — Yesterday at 8:52 PMWrong. Tisha and I are both deputies.

glen, queen mother — Yesterday at 8:53 PManyways, @deputy chair of the assembly, plz move thread (or ask admin/mod to move thread), so deny cormac the sweet gossip he subsists on

NewQuebecshire — Yesterday at 8:53 PMYeah I know, you just want confirmation
 New Quebecshire — Yesterday at 8:54 PM

Deputy Chair of the Assembly (19 June 2021 - Present, alongside Tepertopia and Nyxonia)

Damn, it's been longer than I thought lol. Anyway I don't even know if forum stuff is up to date.

Tishers — Yesterday at 9:02 PMI do not show status as a deputy of the PM, but it has been that way for a few weeks
[9:03 PM]
I do suggest that it be moved to a private location, or if it needs to be seconded I will do that then.

WS got deja vu. — Yesterday at 9:06 PMMight be best to have an admin move the thread and ask questions later

HumanSanity — Yesterday at 9:07 PMWell, Tisha or Quebec should be able to authorize the thread being moved

New Quebecshire — Yesterday at 9:07 PMI don't think I can mechanically move it. Do you mean just say so?

Tishers — Yesterday at 9:08 PM@New Quebecshire I agree as deputy if you do as well

New Quebecshire — Yesterday at 9:08 PM@glen, queen mother unless @Tishers has an objection, would you be willing to move it to the private halls?
[9:08 PM]
Lmao same thoughts, Tisha

 Tishers — Yesterday at 9:08 PMmove it private

Tisha
Minister of Engagement
Legislator
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Ambassador to South Pacific region
OWL senior staff

Tishers ?☢ [Nyxonia]

LEDA #1             June, July, August, September 2021
COB #10            April, May 2021
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"I am an endorsin fool"

(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 11:11 AM by Tishers [Nyxonia].)

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I'm going to repost what I wrote in legislators-lounge here and add some comments because I feel some of my words have been twisted and I don't appreciate that.

For context - I have been very frustrated with this whole ordeal because I see it as the continuation of five years of resistance - I felt I was having my opinion dictated to me by Glen and decided to plant my feet and fight instead of running away or giving in. This is because for essentially the last five years - as a Tactical Officer in TITO, again when I ran for Delegate of 10ki, and again now, it feels like every time I try to do something leadership-oriented, there is always one person there who takes something I say and goes on the warpath to undermine me. When I was in TITO I had a furious argument over some technical stuff that led to my resignation because one individual didn't like where I was going. When I ran for 10ki delegate, I expressed a position that didn't fall in line with the "old guard" and one of them accused me essentially of not being moralist enough and undermined my entire campaign to the point of what I feel was drafting and campaigning for a candidate to run against me, who ultimately won. Now I felt like I was having my position dictated to me because I happened to personally support a resolution commending someone with a contentious history in TSP. This is becoming a continuous pattern and I was sick and tired of feeling like I was being undermined, that people were trying to tell me how to do my job, etc. I wanted to be trusted to lead and for the citizenry to believe that I would do what was right for the region.

To address tsu's point, I said in the cabinet thread that I don't believe she's a security threat currently nor was she since the coup - because if she had been there were definitely grounds to ban her. Which is probably the biggest confusion I have around the whole thing. Why was she not banned and why did she even get to serve as MoMA after the coup?

I didn't say anything about going forward. And I believe that she genuinely has no intent of ever returning to activity in TSP. So my post in the cabinet thread was my judgment based on what I know and have observed. CRS or whoever actually made the call at the time can educate me on my confusion re her not being banned.

I also feel that these messages should get copied here and will respond to some discussion points here and on discord.

[11:51 AM] WS got deja vu.: It happened when I was TITO TO - I was arguing with other members of command constantly and ended up leaving because I felt like people were trying to strongarm me. It happened when I ran for 10ki delegate - Louis and I got into a furious argument here he tried to basically tell me i wasn’t moralist enough. Now it’s happening here with this. People are constantly attempting to tell me how to do my job and when I’m like “no, sorry,” they then go on the warpath to undermine me. That’s what exasperated me here.

[11:55 AM] WS got deja vu.: I just want to feel like I’m trusted to lead instead of feeling like you or whoever is strong-arming me because you didn’t like that I disagreed with you. You’re the latest in at least five years of this happening to me.
[11:56 AM] WS got deja vu.: I hope at the very least you found out that I’m not interested in that anymore.
[11:57 AM] WS got deja vu.: If I’ve been dismissive or eye-rolly it’s because this has followed me my entire career and I finally decided enough was enough.

 

[12:39 PM] WS got deja vu.: I absolutely do. That's why in the first post I made I said you were one hundred percent justified in still being upset over the coup. And I maintain that to this day. I just disagree with the path forward and didn't appreciate some of my words being twisted into things they absolutely were not. Some people in the peanut gallery were like "lol why is he still mad five years later over something that happened to TSP" - no, the coup specifically involved you, Kris, and Farengeto being targeted and you are absolutely justified in being upset over it. My frustration stems from that attempt to be charitable in my disagreement being (at least as far as I felt) completely overlooked and my words twisted to mean things I definitely did not say. At no point did my personal relationship with Imki ever impact my decision as to what the region should do. At no point did I ever attempt to dictate regional policy based on anything other than the laws of the Coalition and my understanding of the political will of the region as a whole, not just a few old hats and not just the gamesiders or the forumsiders or any single group. While I personally supported the resolution, I understood that many others did not feel that way and thus advocated (as should be FULLY on display in the declassified Cabinet threads) that we not intervene and allow the normal democratic process of our region to play out.
[12:39 PM] WS got deja vu.: https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-revenge...f-19761348
[12:40 PM] WS got deja vu.: What we uncovered in the process of "allowing the process to play out unimpeded" is that there are serious deficiencies in HOW that happens. Those are already under discussion in the cabinet and there will be significant personnel and process changes to OWL.

 
Witchcraft and Sorcery

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Former Prime Minister and Minister of Defense. Formerly many things in other regions. Defender. Ideologue. he/they.

(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 02:07 PM by Witchcraft and Sorcery.)

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I would like to add that I strongly believe Imki is a relevant threat to the region. She's very clearly held a grudge against the region in the intervening years and, frankly, I was disturbed that during the discussion of her commendation she had comments I made years ago at the ready to criticize Glen.

This is an argument that wasn't expressed in Cabinet discussion and I didn't know the history of on my own. Is Imki in a position right now to use such a platform to destabilize the Coalition or its foreign connections? I'm asking pointedly, but I don't know. I saw she criticized Glen, but that on its own did not make me think she presented an imminent threat to TSP.

Unless I misread something (which, to be fair could have happened as I responded rather late my time), W&S said that Imki couldn't possibly be a security threat because she is active in our Discord server, and served in the Cabinet after the coup. That's the comment I was referring to.

To be fair, she's not actively a threat right now, but could easily be in the future. It's rare that someone is going to overrun a region, but much easier to ingratiate themselves in the community, earn power and then misuse it. Which leads to the long and short of it (which I didn't have the clarity to articulate late night): our vote in support of this commendation gives her cover to say "It really wasn't that bad / the region supports(ed) me / look they even voted to commend me!"

I also feel compelled to note that "is not an active threat" (assuming, for the sake of argument, that that's even the case) is also a very different and extremely low bar to argue for when the topic is "global commendation for their actions".

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I would appreciate if these arguments and discussions were also brought to the current staff of OWL. Especially those of us who played a part in designing the system as it stands currently may have some useful suggestions on what and how to change.

Respectfully, I do want to note that this is not the first time Luca brought a concern about OWL's structure. They raised this in the OWL area in their capacity as an OWL staffer prior to being elected to the Cabinet and were dismissed without much discussion. This may also have led to the belief that the Cabinet would need to invoke its higher standing over OWL to achieve change within OWL. This Cabinet is also relatively fresh in office and is inheriting an inactive OWL from the previous Cabinet.

I absolutely believe we (including me) could have done better in terms of communicating with OWL about these issues in a timely manner, both in the particulars of this vote and our broader concerns about OWL's inactivity and dysfunction, and I will push for the Cabinet to be more open with OWL Staff in the upcoming discussions. However, I also hope you acknowledge that Senior Staff who are inactive (and have been for some time, and with seemingly no efforts to cultivate talent or elevate new Senior Staff as would be necessary for the long-term health of the institution) in a system that was barely working even when multiple Senior Staff were active, when previous attempts to raise criticism of OWL's process from a less hierarchical perspective had been summarily dismissed, does not lend itself much to the Cabinet feeling like its concerns will get addressed in this manner. This street is two way, and while the Cabinet could do more to honor its side of this, OWL has helped create the perception that Cabinet direction would be necessary.

Edit: I amended the first sentence of my post to the current language from this after reviewing the relevant discussion again: "Respectfully, I do want to note that this is not the first time Luca brought this set of concerns and ideas about OWL. They raised them in the OWL area in their capacity as an OWL staffer prior to being elected to the Cabinet and were pretty summarily dismissed."

Minister of Foreign Affairs
General of the South Pacific Special Forces
Ambassador to Balder
Former Prime Minister and Minister of Defense

(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 03:35 PM by HumanSanity.)

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The things that are important to you in this era will not be of the same paramount concern to newer members, nor will it be based on the same experience and perspective.

I find this a very disappointing attitude from anyone in this region, let alone an elected official. We are talking about a coup against this region, not a bill that failed to pass. I almost hoped that, just for a change, it should be taken seriously, but evidently that was too much to ask.

Nakari has already provided the answer I would have, were I not asleep at the time, but for clarity I have never provided an opinion on the coup or favoured any version of it. My comments reference the inevitability of linear time. Perhaps linear time is disappointing, but it is an immutable attribute either way.

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To address tsu's point, I said in the cabinet thread that I don't believe she's a security threat currently nor was she since the coup - because if she had been there were definitely grounds to ban her. Which is probably the biggest confusion I have around the whole thing. Why was she not banned and why did she even get to serve as MoMA after the coup?

Because (i) a false both-sides narrative took hold, something that Glen has already more than adequately addressed in his essay; and (ii) there was this misguided notion, in the immediate aftermath of the coup, that "unity" and "reconciliation" were more important than accountability, so people who quite literally attempted to overthrow the Coalition (and very nearly succeeded) were allowed to remain, and were even welcome with open arms, despite our warnings about it.

--

On a broader point, I've said a lot about the coup over the years, but I will say for the record that it really is a piece of work how this region has handled the whole event. Ever since it first started the concern has always been about the coupers and how much they've done for the region, because Max forbid that we see them as anything but net positives. "Sure, they tried to overthrow the government, but did you see what they did with the Special Forces?"

It has been 8 years since Glen, Farengeto and I joined this region. In that time we have served as Delegate, Prime Minister, Chair of the Assembly, Chief Justice and every other office imaginable. We have laid a lot of the foundations for what this region is today. Yet not once has the region had our backs when it comes to the coup. It's always how we're biased, how the coupers have done good for the region, how it's been a while since then, how maybe it wasn't even a coup. The way this has been handled one might think we're next-door neighbours instead of people who've devoted years of their lives to this community and who deserve to be heard and taken seriously.

The fact that 5 years in we're still having this argument really hurts.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 04:02 PM by Kris Kringle.)

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I personally fail to see the problem with our Delegate voting according to the wishes of the overwhelming majority of WA nations in the South Pacific.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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