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Awe · 05-14-2016, 12:41 AM

(05-14-2016, 12:13 AM)Roavin Wrote: In a later stage, I'm sure the roster could be modified to not show post dates, but instead show if they voted in the last N polls in the Voting sub-forum.

Yeah, that was what I was concerned about.

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(This post was last modified: 05-14-2016, 12:45 AM by Awe.)

***Tsunamy*** · 05-14-2016, 09:56 AM

I have to two more quick questions with the CRS.

First, should we include something where the application can be overridden by the Assembly if rejected by the CRS?

Second, and I think this is important since it's going to come up, are we completely rejecting anyone involved in the coup/non-coup earlier this year? Since the Assembly voted for amnesty, I feel like we should not be including this incident, but as written, I'm not sure what the practice would be?

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W. Charlesfort · 05-14-2016, 10:44 AM

(05-14-2016, 09:56 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: I have to two more quick questions with the CRS.

First, should we include something where the application can be overridden by the Assembly if rejected by the CRS?

Second, and I think this is important since it's going to come up, are we completely rejecting anyone involved in the coup/non-coup earlier this year? Since the Assembly voted for amnesty, I feel like we should not be including this incident, but as written, I'm not sure what the practice would be?

What about hust banning them from governing-positions for a certain time, not from the region itself?

***sandaoguo*** · 05-14-2016, 02:19 PM

I don't think the CRS should be forced to work with somebody they rejected. I'm concerned with basically creating a dysfunctional atmosphere because politics trumps the CRS's decision. If it's a case of the CRS arbitrarily rejecting a candidate for political purposes, that seems grounds for recalls. Assembly overrides just seem like they would promote problems: either by dismissing the CRS's objective opinion, or by bypassing the real problem if the CRS is acting politically.

The continuing resolution reappoints all current CSS members. So Sam would still be a member. I would prefer otherwise, but that's an issue already settled and we chose to not relitigate Sam's membership again. The requirement going forward is a must, in my opinion. It's just makes no sense at all to trust people to protect the government from a coup if they've participated in one themselves. It's not a vindictive proscription. A lot of us genuinely don't see how the two can be reconciled.

Amnesty was for protection against criminal prosecution only. It wasn't a retcon of their actions.

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***sandaoguo*** · 05-14-2016, 03:47 PM

Also, just for clarity, the CRS coup participation line would only really affect Sam, Hileville, and Imki, in terms of how it affects our own latest coup. But Sam is grandfathered in under the continuing resolution.

So that clause is about setting a precedent and sending a strong message for the future, if anybody thinks that a coup would be a proper way to address an issue.

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Awe · 05-15-2016, 01:32 PM

I also noticed something else...

The reason RL legislatures can elect their own Speakers, is because the Clerk of Parliament conducts the election for Speaker. We don't have that in TSP, so I'd recommend that a member of the EC conducts the election.

I don't think a campaign would be necessary, so we could just go with 3 days nominating, 3 days campaigning?

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**Belschaft** · 05-15-2016, 02:08 PM

Yeah, that's really not how acts of legal oblivion work. You can't pass an amnesty and then ignore it.

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***sandaoguo*** · 05-15-2016, 02:41 PM

(05-15-2016, 01:32 PM)Awe Wrote: We don't have that in TSP, so I'd recommend that a member of the EC conducts the election.

I don't think a campaign would be necessary, so we could just go with 3 days nominating, 3 days campaigning?

I mean, the only thing that needs to be done is to create a poll. I actually envisioned it more like a speakership election-- no private votes, all done on the public record. Because this is a legislature choosing it's chair, rather than citizens choosing their government.

A member of the EC can definitely be the one who creates the poll when necessary, For the sake of procedural clarity. I'll make that change later tonight, along with several others.

***sandaoguo*** · 05-15-2016, 02:42 PM

(05-15-2016, 02:08 PM)Belschaft Wrote: Yeah, that's really not how acts of legal oblivion work. You can't pass an amnesty and then ignore it.

This has been discussed to death. Amnesty was for immunity to criminal prosecution. Amnesty does not, has not ever, and will not ever, mean those who participated in the coup don't have to face any consequences whatsoever for their actions.

Not that it matters-- Sam is grandfathered in. Should he ever participate in a coup again, then there's absolutely no reason why he or anybody else should be allowed to sit on any security body.

**Belschaft** · 05-15-2016, 02:49 PM

(05-15-2016, 02:42 PM)sandaoguo Wrote:
(05-15-2016, 02:08 PM)Belschaft Wrote: Yeah, that's really not how acts of legal oblivion work. You can't pass an amnesty and then ignore it.

This has been discussed to death. Amnesty was for immunity to criminal prosecution. Amnesty does not, has not ever, and will not ever, mean those who participated in the coup don't have to face any consequences whatsoever for their actions.

Not that it matters-- Sam is grandfathered in. Should he ever participate in a coup again, then there's absolutely no reason why he or anybody else should be allowed to sit on any security body.

Everyone who was involved in the Crisis is grandfathered in; you don't get to declare that the amnesty doesn't apply in certain circumstances. I have no objection to the proposed clause in question, but your absurd attempt to ignore how an amnesty functions is.... well, absurd.

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