I'll sign onto whatever you guys write at this point.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
@ Kris Kringle @ Farengeto @ Sam111, do you all approve of the language?
DM said on Discord he'll sign on to whatever the rest of us do.
I tend to prefer more detailed and formal language for official statements (  ) but I don't object to the measure itself.
EDIT: Since this vote seems to be on the actual statement, however, I must cast a Nay vote. I think there needs to be a more thorough explanation of why we believe Belschaft is a security risk (even if it's widely know, the statement is supposed to explain it) and why we think each preventative measure being taken is warranted. Our job isn't just to ensure regional security, but also to explain how each step we take is conductive towards a better enforced security.
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2017, 01:35 AM by Kris Kringle.)
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I'll support it, let's just get this over and done with.
FYI: I was provided this via PM today.
Quote:The following is a record of a formal deposition of Roavin, Minister of Military Affairs during November 2016, conducted on the evening of 27/03/17. This record has been edited to remove commentary outside of the deposition, such as notifications of temporary absences, and to correct typographical errors. I have CC'd Roavin so he can certify the transcripts accuracy.
---
Belschaft: For the record, could you please identify yourself and your current positions and offices in TSP or elsewhere?
Roavin: My main nation is Roavin. I am currently a Legislator in the South Pacific, Officer in the South Pacific Special Forces, and First Warden of The Order of the Grey Wardens.
Belschaft: And during the period of November 2016?
Roavin: In November 2016, I was also Legislator in the South Pacific and Officer in the South Pacific Special Forces; furthermore, I was Minister of Military Affairs in the South Pacific and a citizen in Lazarus.
Belschaft: As Minister of Military Affairs, did you establish an intelligence program and employ intelligence officers?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: Did you appoint Belschaft as an intelligence officer?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: What instructions and objectives did you give Belschaft as a SPSF Intelligence Officer, in your capacity as Minister of Military affairs and his direct superior?
Roavin: Only one specific instruction was given, pertaining to finding possible information on a particular gameplayer's involvement with another gameplay organization. The objective of the program was to generally have the capability to perform intelligence operations in a responsible fashion, and most discussions revolved around that objective.
Belschaft: So Belschaft had no instructions or directions to launch any intelligence operations?
Roavin: None besides the specific one already mentioned, no.
Belschaft: Did you discuss or provide directions in regards to unsolicited or "walk in" contacts?
Roavin: They were discussed as a component part of establishing an intelligence program. Unsolicited contact was to be accepted, even if no specific order to solicit contact was given.
Belschaft: So, to clarify; if contacted by an individual of potential interest, such as a GCR Delegate or major GP figure, Belschaft was to accept that contact and attempt to develop it if possible?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: Under what circumstances was Belschaft expected to report back from such a contact?
Roavin: This was not specifically agreed upon.
Belschaft: Broadly speaking, what were your expectations in regards to that subject? To be specific, whilst no set criteria for reporting were established, what would you have expected or considered appropriate?
Roavin: I would have expected, at the very least, any tangible information that is not already common knowledge to have been passed on, unfiltered by value judgements. A notification that contact has been established would be nice-to-have but not essential.
Belschaft: You are aware of the unsolicited contact between Belschaft and Neo Kervoskia, aka. NK, aka. Griffin, initiated on the 11th of November 2016 and then continuing?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: When did you become aware of this unsolicited contact?
Roavin: On February 8th, 2017.
Belschaft: So you are familiar with the contents of the logs in question?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: In your professional opinion, is there anything revealed in the logs that should have been reported to you? To be specific, any "tangible information that is not already common knowledge"?
Roavin: No.
Belschaft: In your professional opinion, how would you characterise the contents of the logs in question?
Roavin: The statements on lines 77, 78, and 84 are, whilst not directly incriminating on their own, quite suspicious and warrant a closer look.
Belschaft: Could you specifically identify the lines you are referring to?
Roavin: Line 77: Anything you want me to do in TSP? I'm not actually in the government these days Line 78: So if you want me to act as back channel you've got to let me know Line 84: I can work to discourage any "Osiris bad, Empire bad" thinking The author for all three of those lines is Belschaft.
Belschaft: Thank you.
Belschaft: Considering the context of an unsolicited contact, and standing instructions that such were to be developed if possible, what is your evaluation of those statements?
Roavin: It's not black and white. On the one hand, it can be reasonably argued that the statements are products of the unsolicited contact directive given through the SPSF intelligence program; on the other hand, the contact was with the Delegate of a region in which the Delegate does not hold a power equivalent to a Commander-in-Chief over the military, therefore straining the argument that this falls into the jurisdiction of the SPSF alone.
Belschaft: In your professional opinion, does the constitutional role and powers of NK reflect his actual role and powers in Osiris?
Roavin: I do not consider myself to have either the expertise or knowledge in the intricacies of Osiran law, nor of their de facto interpretation, to be able to answer that question.
Belschaft: Do you consider NK to be an individual of potential interest, in keeping with your instructions regarding unsolicited contact?
Roavin: Likely not, for the reasons previously stated.
Belschaft: To the best of your knowledge, would others consider NK to be an individual of potential interest?
Roavin: Considering that Neo Kervoskia was or is a key figure in the Empire, a group that is prohibited in the South Pacific, the Council on Regional Security presumably considers them an individual of interest.
Belschaft: Considering NK's status within Empire, Empire's prohibited group designation, and your instructions regarding unsolicited contact, how would you have expected Belschaft to respond to unsolicited contact from NK?
Roavin: Certainly friendliness, openness, and an encouragement for future contact are key here, and these traits were certainly displayed by Belschaft's statements. At the same time, these could surely have been phrased differently such that these statements, while being just as effective, do not tacitly offer special access or the services of a South Pacifican insider (as in for example line 77, in which Belschaft initiates an offer to act in the South Pacific based on orders from Neo Kervoskia).
Belschaft: To the best of your knowledge, did Belschaft provide "special access or the services of a South Pacifican insider" to NK, providing him with anything that was not publicly available on TSP's forums or already in the public sphere?
Roavin: I am not aware of any such instance, no.
Belschaft: Do you have any reason to suspect such instances occurred?
Roavin: No.
Belschaft: Considering all that you know about this situation, how would you describe the relationship between Belschaft and NK?
Roavin: It appears that they consider each other friendly acquaintances, but not friends.
Belschaft: Would you agree that these logs, when examined in the context of Belschaft's status as an Intelligence Officer and the standing instructions regarding unsolicited contact, record an attempt to develop the relationship so as to acquire "tangible information that is not already common knowledge"?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: And this was permitted intelligence activity, under the standing instructions you had given?
Roavin: Yes.
Belschaft: Thank you for your cooperation and your time. I have no further questions, unless there is something you would like to add or clarify?
Roavin: Nope.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
@Kris: I'll write more detail then.
@Tsu: All that really tells me is that Roavin started an unauthorized intel program.
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I think I'm preaching to the choir here, but Belschaft discussed foreign policy and TSP-Osiris relations with Neo Kervoskia, which is hardly under the exclusive purview of the SPSF. I agree with Glen, this only shows he's either lying to cover Belschaft or that he overstepped his bounds as Minister. Neither is acceptable.
Roavin isn't really lying to cover Bel. He's been pushing us on this for months.
But it does look like he did something he shouldn't have. Imki created the intel program first. So in all likelihood, Roavin continued it without realizing the laws about it. Coming to us was probably him realizing and trying to get retroactive permission for it. Either way, not ok, though we've made it clear to Vietnam and Res that it wasn't.
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I don't see how Roavin was so pushy on this whole thing when he knew the entire time that Belschaft was acting as an "Intelligence Officer" under his directive. He should have known full well that the whole scenario would come under fire after that information was uncovered.
Now that Bel has this to back up his case, any further action at this point will just make the CRS look foolish.
We accused Bel of getting in bed with Empire based on those logs, and now Bel has an entire deposition from Roavin casting a huge amount of doubt over that whole set of logs based on the fact he was acting under orders from the MoMA.
(03-28-2017, 06:11 PM)Drugged Monkeys Wrote: I don't see how Roavin was so pushy on this whole thing when he knew the entire time that Belschaft was acting as an "Intelligence Officer" under his directive. He should have known full well that the whole scenario would come under fire after that information was uncovered.
Now that Bel has this to back up his case, any further action at this point will just make the CRS look foolish.
We accused Bel of getting in bed with Empire based on those logs, and now Bel has an entire deposition from Roavin casting a huge amount of doubt over that whole set of logs based on the fact he was acting under orders from the MoMA.
Personally, the fact that Roavin gave us the logs undermines this.
This "deposition" was taken by Bel for the purposes of his own defense. It's really ridiculous.
(Sorry I should've made this explicit above. Bel PMed that exchange to me; I was passing it along)
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(This post was last modified: 03-28-2017, 11:39 PM by Tsunamy.)
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