| Motion of No Confidence |
Fully support. Maybe this cabinet has too much experience.
Midwesterner. Political nerd. Chipotle enthusiast.
Minister of Culture of the South Pacific // Former Prime Minister (05-27-2018, 08:56 PM)Amerion Wrote: I am curious whether in the case that all current Cabinet members elect to run and are indeed re-elected to serve, whether each of you would be confident that all existing issues can be solved so as to ensure the next term is not as divisive as is the current one. I amn't attached to any titles. I think that if everyone involved in this situation, and their proxies, don't run for any position in the upcoming cabinet (and remove themselves from advisory and other positions of access) - it will be fine. People who want to work for the region will do so without titles and others will fade away. The cabinet provides power and access but we've had ministers who didn't do their jobs or disappeared as well and while the region suffers in some ways - it will be fine. Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
The unparliamentarian language aside (tut tut), I'm not in favour of the motion.
Whilst naturally not knowing all the ins and outs of this (as you would expect us not to be), i do not see from the conversation that has been taking place since the initial post that the relationships are so broken that the current cabinet cannot continue to function until the end of its term. Indeed if anything it appears that the initial post has allowed an issue to be raised and discussion to begin afresh. Perhaps, if i may ask, is roavin still of the opinion of his original motion. As, if i understand the pms response to PS2 (question 3) you do not consider the cabinet so dysfunctional it cannot operate successfully until the next election. It would appear to me therefore that, if that is the case, the motion should not be called under article 2 section xi 2. A Motion of No Confidence may be initiated by the Assembly, if the members have lost faith in the effectiveness and activities of the Prime Minister and the Cabinet. Thank you for your time
After reading/watching this thread, I must say that I'm of the mind that this isn't needed.
But the end of every Cabinet term, people are frustrated with the job (and with each other) and it comes into focus that some of the plans aren't realized. This may feel like a failure (and maybe it is), but ultimately, this is just par for the course. It seems like that, if we had an emergency, the Cabinet could reasonably snap to action (even now) and, as such, I think holding the elections as normal will allow everyone — the Cabinet/candidates and the rest of the legislators — how/if to more forward.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
(05-28-2018, 11:23 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: After reading/watching this thread, I must say that I'm of the mind that this isn't needed. This isn’t a case of people being frustrated at the end. What I’ve seen mirrors some of our most dysfunctional Cabinets, like when Raven and Unibot were in the same Cabinet. That Cabinet also “got stuff done,” but it was full of fighting and was a bad environment to be in. That’s not what we should consider par for the course. With this motion being so close to elections, I don’t think Roavin plans on holding a snap special election just to have regular elections right after. That’s obviously absurd. But some of the issues that have plagued this Cabinet *were* brought up before during the past election, and those red flags weren’t taken seriously because it was in the context of competition. It was just “campaigning.” By issuing a motion of no confidence that reflects as poorly on Roavin as it does Tim and Escade, I think he’s hoping the problems won’t be dismissed as electioneering. Pulling the trigger on this happened after two blow ups by Tim and Escade, so it’s also a matter of circumstances. Are we just going to not take this seriously because it wasn’t brought up a month ago? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (05-27-2018, 07:27 PM)Roavin Wrote: I should note that we've appointed Serres as special advisor for the purposes of evaluating conflicting claims from individual ministers. Serres has access to #cabinet-office now. Who is 'we'? People who are being investigated for conflict cannot be the ones who chose the investigator. - - - - - - Quite frankly, I think this whole thing is very much ridiculous. Every single member of the TSP government, including myself, has failed at their duties to a very large degree. There are many examples over just the past month, of people not living up to their responsibilities and duties. And you know what? Who cares? This is a game, this is not a real life government that people rely on for living. So what if people didn't follow their duties to the exact letter? When does that ever happen, even in real life? Asking for a vote of no confidence (recall) for the cabinet, and supporting it, means being the most hypocritical of all people in this circumstance. In my humble opinion, if you support the recall of the cabinet, then you should support the recall of the PM. A lot of people here say that Roavin's post is damaging him as well, but I haven't heard anybody asking him to step down along with the rest. Furthermore, I believe that the legislation should pass an emergency bill which bars all the Cabinet members, and the PM, from running for offices in the executive branch for the coming 2 elections. If they cannot get along, then they shouldn't be in office. Sorry guys. I really like you all, and don't take my last statement as a personal attack, but I've learned that when things boil over to this point, it's best to let people take a break before they start hating their friends, colleagues and the game.
It being a game is probably one of the biggest reasons why this motion has merit. A game shouldn’t be as stressful as it is, to where Roavin felt the need to take an extraordinary step like this. These issues have been talked about before, as far as I know— the motion itself might have “come out nowhere” to the other Cabinet members, but these issues have been longstanding and I know they’ve been discussed before. Private discussions haven’t helped.
I think that’s because there’s no actual accountability. The only way people can be held accountable for their actions and behavior is if their friend (Roavin) publicly calls them out on it. So often in this game, these issues are only spoken about in DMs and fronts are put up in public during elections, because “the devil you know”-type thinking. If we’re going to elect people to play these roles in our game, we should be able to have accountability, and that’s done by being honest and transparent. When things get as bad as they are, I’m not sure there’s any way to deal with them without drastic measures. Your last two paragraphs are spot on, I think. Though generally maybe we should discuss consecutive term limits, rather than barring these 3 or 4 people individually. After so many terms without any real accountability, maybe people just start to feel invincible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (05-28-2018, 02:26 PM)Lakania Wrote: In my humble opinion, if you support the recall of the cabinet, then you should support the recall of the PM. A lot of people here say that Roavin's post is damaging him as well, but I haven't heard anybody asking him to step down along with the rest. I'll just stick to correcting this: the PM is part of the Cabinet. And Roa has stated multiple times, at least on the discord, he will be removing the entire cabinet with this, including himself. Your last second to last paragraph though, that is... an interesting proposal. Certainly not one I entirely disagree with. I'd like to see more details before I consider it further.
An eye for an eye just makes the whole world go blind.
~Mahatma Gandhi
(05-28-2018, 12:12 PM)sandaoguo Wrote:(05-28-2018, 11:23 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: After reading/watching this thread, I must say that I'm of the mind that this isn't needed. But ... what's the actionable item here? Either, we're holding a vote of no confidence ... or we're not? There isn't a ton of middle ground here. I'm less interested in debating Roavin's feelings on the matter (which are valid and I hope people take heed of them) than I am addressing the practical application of the situation.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
From roavin’s OP- “To put it simply, the Cabinet just isn’t working. I will try my best to explain the reasons” but then proceeds to only point out reasons towards Escade and Tim and avoids mentioning the other two members not including himself makes this seem biased towards them in my opinion. (unless he mentioned them in a later post which should have been added to the OP and I apologize)
Also Roavin you are on the record as saying “I think it's not wholly unreasonable to not pass the motion and just let the election run normally” does this not point to the fact that a motion of no confidence was unneeded this close to the election? Cause to me I have yet to see any evidence of the whole cabinet being dysfunctional since you seemed to point out Escade and Tim in your post and yet the “the cabinet isn’t functioning.” I know this includes Roavin in the whole cabinet recall but it looks like Tim and Escade were mentioned 99% of his post. Just my thoughts on the situation |
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