Of course madam Chairwoman, my apologies.

Okay, so here's an update, everyone. An internal dialogue between myself, the deputies, senior fellows, and advisors have begun on an alternative proposal. We understand that there are members of the Assembly who wish to split the Ministry, so we're currently discussing how to best address the issues that the Ministry is facing. So, at this time, I am urging for no vote on this matter to occur in the meantime.

(04-28-2020, 06:35 PM)Jay Coop Wrote: Okay, so here's an update, everyone. An internal dialogue between myself, the deputies, senior fellows, and advisors have begun on an alternative proposal. We understand that there are members of the Assembly who wish to split the Ministry, so we're currently discussing how to best address the issues that the Ministry is facing. So, at this time, I am urging for no vote on this matter to occur in the meantime.

So that the Assembly is not sitting here for weeks and the window to be able to implement a split before elections does not pass, could the Minister give a firm deadline for when we should expect a proposal from this working group?

(04-28-2020, 06:38 PM)Omega Wrote:

(04-28-2020, 06:35 PM)Jay Coop Wrote: Okay, so here's an update, everyone. An internal dialogue between myself, the deputies, senior fellows, and advisors have begun on an alternative proposal. We understand that there are members of the Assembly who wish to split the Ministry, so we're currently discussing how to best address the issues that the Ministry is facing. So, at this time, I am urging for no vote on this matter to occur in the meantime.

So that the Assembly is not sitting here for weeks and the window to be able to implement a split before elections does not pass, could the Minister give a firm deadline for when we should expect a proposal from this working group? 

Why are you so adamant on splitting MoRA again?

(04-28-2020, 06:46 PM)Rabbitz Wrote: Why are you so adamant on splitting MoRA again?

In an effort not to clog up this thread with points already made, I would encourage you to look back at the OP and some of the other posts I and others have made in this thread.

(04-28-2020, 06:38 PM)Omega Wrote: So that the Assembly is not sitting here for weeks and the window to be able to implement a split before elections does not pass, could the Minister give a firm deadline for when we should expect a proposal from this working group?

We're asking the Assembly to show good faith that the Ministry is making efforts to have a dialogue on the matter at hand. We have just now started having an opportunity to discuss this, so we won't have a definitive deadline.

(04-28-2020, 06:51 PM)Jay Coop Wrote: We're asking the Assembly to show good faith that the Ministry is making efforts to have a dialogue on the matter at hand. We have just now started having an opportunity to discuss this, so we won't have a definitive deadline.

I am glad the Ministry leadership is discussing this but I can't imagine why it would take longer than say around three days to come to us with a concrete proposal. After all, I am sure the MoRA leadership has been discussing these systemic problems for months now and probably has a lot of ideas already written down with detailed plans. Unless, of course, it took us discussing a split again for the Ministry leadership to finally begin to have these discussions about how to reform the systemic issues in the MoRA in which case I would be really curious why the leadership had not been addressing these problems before this debate. In the latter case, this clearly points to the necessity of Assembly oversight.

I will once again request a concrete date so the MoRA leadership does not run down the clock to prevent a split for another four months.

(04-28-2020, 06:47 PM)Omega Wrote:

(04-28-2020, 06:46 PM)Rabbitz Wrote: Why are you so adamant on splitting MoRA again?

In an effort not to clog up this thread with points already made, I would encourage you to look back at the OP and some of the other posts I and others have made in this thread. 

Okie. One other question. The draft states that the Charter will be amended to have this:

Minister of Culture

(7) The Minister of Culture will be responsible for promoting regional and forum activity, organizing cultural events, and furthering the education of the members of the Coalition.

Minister of Integration

(8) The Minister of Integration will be responsible for integrating new players into the Coalition's government and community.

It states that Culture is responsible for "furthering the education of the members of the Coalition," and Integration is responsible for "integrating new players into the Coalition's government and community." Wouldn't a necessary part of integrating is teaching them the ways of TSP, meaning that they would have to be taught, in essence, what Culture says what they're supposed to do? So wouldn't that mean that Culture and Integration would overlap in their duties?

What I'm trying to get at here, is that splitting MoRA up into two Ministries that are very much alike, isn't gonna fix things. It's gonna cause confusion, miscommunication, and backlash.

(04-28-2020, 06:58 PM)Rabbitz Wrote: So wouldn't that mean that Culture and Integration would overlap in their duties?

They would overlap in the same was FA and MA overlap in both of them deal with foreign regions and how RA and FA overlap when working on joint festivals. Somehow I am inclined to believe that these new Ministries would find a way to work together and overcome this overlap that may exist.

I'd be happy to talk about moving around some of these things if that is what it'll take for MoRA leadership to agree to this split, but I'll just wait for this proposal Jay has promised at a later date.

(04-28-2020, 06:35 PM)Jay Coop Wrote: Okay, so here's an update, everyone. An internal dialogue between myself, the deputies, senior fellows, and advisors have begun on an alternative proposal. We understand that there are members of the Assembly who wish to split the Ministry, so we're currently discussing how to best address the issues that the Ministry is facing. So, at this time, I am urging for no vote on this matter to occur in the meantime.

We're not even close to going to a vote anyway. But why can't we discuss this as a collective here?

I think I know where this all comes from, though. It looks (to me, at least) like the perception amongst MoRA personnel is that this is some "us vs. the World" thing, and that's ... really not the case. It's not about saying "MoRA is doing a shit job" or any of that, because most of us on all sides of this issue know that MoRA is the hardest job in the region to do right. I think it's safe to say that most of the "pro-split" crowd are not at all concerned with, or have issues with, the individuals that comprise the MoRA personnel, but rather are considering the holistic view. That doesn't necessarily mean that the pro-split crowd is "right", but it's worth having a debate.

To MoRA personnel directly: I can't speak for anyone on this point but if I may interpret based on my experience in this body: There is a perception that has arisen. The "we're not being heard" rhetoric looks disingenuous to others, because you can post here just as much as they can, and in fact your points are being actively responded to, sometimes with disagreement, sometimes with concession. That the claim of not being heard still comes up despite that makes it look to others like you're saying it because you don't like being disagreed with, which in turn results in your debate opponents here turning to an incredulous and somewhat snarky demeanor. That in turn leads to more herd mentality, which in turn leads to you shutting yourself away in the #senior-fellows channel rather than staying out here, which in turn reinforces the perception, etc.etc. — I hope you can see where I'm going with this.

It's really not a "MoRA vs The Rest" thing. It's not MoRA being attacked. It's simply a TSP thing, and that involves current active MoRA personnel, new people, old cranky people, and even failed former MoRAs like myself talking things through and figuring out a good way to go about it.