Okay, you made me laugh. Offered us guidance and help? Pull the other one. I’ve been hamstrung a few times where I ended up as basically a solo LC and I don’t recall anyone coming to my aid. I’m here in good faith to try and figure out solutions to keep our “low quality “ and “high quality” people talking and having fun. It is a game after all.

I had dozens of conversations with different LC members over the years, after changing it to be a local government in 2016, on all the possibilities of what that could mean. None of them went anywhere, because nobody was interested in doing anything other than moderating the RMB. Did you and I personally have that discussion? I don't believe so. It has, however, been discussed openly probably hundreds of times in the last 6 years, and the Assembly even passed a resolution in April begging to LC to craft some semblance of a local government... which the LC promptly ignored.

I'm all for solution to keep "people talking and having fun." That's exactly what I think the RMB is about, that so many people are is complete denial over. We don't need a local government on the RMB. We just need mods who will lightly moderate the people talking and having fun.

Okay, fair enough, and if I was slightly hostile, please excuse my tone. Maybe I’m coming at this wrong, and I should ask how you see an appointed mod team as being more beneficial to the region then an elected one. Also, if they are appointed, who would they answer to. And honestly while I think of it, if you wrote the appeal process, you definitely screwed the pooch there, but that’s not an attack, just an observation. It’s fixable and I do have some thoughts there.

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RMB mods would not be elected, they would be appointed, just like all other moderators in the history of TSP. They would answer to the admin team, for the same reason.

We need to get over this idea that there’s a gameside vs forumside for *everything*. That whole framework was specifically for *in-character politics*, the “political game” of TSP, back when we were all idiots thinking that the RMB had any interest at all in playing our weird semi-roleplay political nomic game. Moderation of the RMB falls under community management, which is what the admin and mod teams do already with the forums and Discord. RMB moderators would be joining that structure to moderate the RMB, outside of the political game.

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RMB mods would not be elected, they would be appointed, just like all other moderators in the history of TSP. They would answer to the admin team, for the same reason.

We need to get over this idea that there’s a gameside vs forumside for *everything*. That whole framework was specifically for *in-character politics*, the “political game” of TSP, back when we were all idiots thinking that the RMB had any interest at all in playing our weird semi-roleplay political nomic game. Moderation of the RMB falls under community management, which is what the admin and mod teams do already with the forums and Discord. RMB moderators would be joining that structure to moderate the RMB, outside of the political game.

Did I ask for fluff? Never once did I mention gameside or forumside users, so if you could stop bringing it up when I ask simple questions, I’d appreciate it.

And once again, who in your version appoints (notice I didn’t say elects) the mods? I don’t know any admin team, so why should I trust them to be impartial? I’m doing you the courtesy of listening to your vision, the least you can do is explain it. And while we’re on it, you once said if mods were going to have bc, they’d have to be vetted and appointed, so what’s the vetting process and requirements to it. Don’t have to be exact, just a few ideas to see how it would work will be fine.

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You’re asking why appointed RMB mods are a better option than elected ones and who they would answer to. These questions have obvious answers, unless you’re operating under the assumption that RMB moderation is separate from any other form of moderation because the RMB is it’s own thing.

How RMB moderators are chosen isn’t a political issue that would be ironed out in this GC. It’s not going in the Charter or law, just as we don’t put how Discord or forum mods are appointed into law. There’s no election law equivalent here. The region decides RMB moderation isn’t political, and the admin team takes it from there. It’s pretty much a given that RMB mods would be chosen among people active on the RMB.

(This post was last modified: 07-20-2022, 01:00 PM by sandaoguo.)

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I don’t know any admin team, so why should I trust them to be impartial?

Administrators and moderators are listed here.

Do your concerns about impartiality extend to the forums? To Discord? To the region itself? Because our moderation and administration team has always been around. In fact, they've banned people from the region before! Here is an example. Here is another. Or here. Or here.

My point is, there has been a long window of time during which the administration team has been active and during which time people could complain about impartiality (or lack thereof). I don't agree with everything Glen is saying, but his "vision" is remarkably similar to an expansion of an existing moderation structure.

Esfalsa | NationStates | Wiki | Roleplay | Discord

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Administrators and moderators are listed here.

Oh, by the way, @USoVietnam is also an admin despite not being listed in that thread iirc

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Republic of Lansoon (Pacifica)

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You’re asking why appointed RMB mods are a better option than elected ones and who they would answer to. These questions have obvious answers, unless you’re operating under the assumption that RMB moderation is separate from any other form of moderation because the RMB is it’s own thing.

How RMB moderators are chosen isn’t a political issue that would be ironed out in this GC. It’s not going in the Charter or law, just as we don’t put how Discord or forum mods are appointed into law. There’s no election law equivalent here. The region decides RMB moderation isn’t political, and the admin team takes it from there. It’s pretty much a given that RMB mods would be chosen among people active on the RMB.

Actually I was asking why you think they’re better, I’ve been a mod on various places and times so I know the difference between the two. But I didn’t create this setup, you did, so I have to ask you what your intent was. Government can take many forms, and moderation aside, did you ever think it had evolved in a way to suit the needs and desires of those that used it? Leave aside the whole IC/OCC thing, which doesn’t work for me, are not the residents fairly happy? Do they get basic services done for them? How would removing the LC solve issues that people run into on a daily basis? Remember, remove moderation, it has no bearing on this. It’s sort of a necessary evil at this point, but there are other things I’d prefer to be doing then chiding someone about posting stupid things over and over.

I don’t know any admin team, so why should I trust them to be impartial?

Administrators and moderators are listed here.

Do your concerns about impartiality extend to the forums? To Discord? To the region itself? Because our moderation and administration team has always been around. In fact, they've banned people from the region before! Here is an example. Here is another. Or here. Or here.

My point is, there has been a long window of time during which the administration team has been active and during which time people could complain about impartiality (or lack thereof). I don't agree with everything Glen is saying, but his "vision" is remarkably similar to an expansion of an existing moderation structure.

Don’t confuse like and trust, I like most of them, those I’ve interacted with fairly regularly, even Glen. But trust? There’s very few on those lists I personally trust. Would you trust me?

And always to me is a very, very long time.

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Don’t confuse like and trust, I like most of them, those I’ve interacted with fairly regularly, even Glen. But trust? There’s very few on those lists I personally trust. Would you trust me?

I don't find this productive. There is one administrative team that oversees the various venues of this region and appoints moderators in accordance with applicable regulations. This arrangement has worked more than fine for this forum and the offsite chat. The RMB is not inherently special in any way that would require special accommodations or these sudden questions about how "trustworthy" administrators truly are.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

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Don’t confuse like and trust, I like most of them, those I’ve interacted with fairly regularly, even Glen. But trust? There’s very few on those lists I personally trust. Would you trust me?

I'm not confusing like and trust. I'm asking you where this distrust was every single previous time the moderation and administration time banned someone from the region (and hence the RMB).

Esfalsa | NationStates | Wiki | Roleplay | Discord

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Don’t confuse like and trust, I like most of them, those I’ve interacted with fairly regularly, even Glen. But trust? There’s very few on those lists I personally trust. Would you trust me?

I don't find this productive. There is one administrative team that oversees the various venues of this region and appoints moderators in accordance with applicable regulations. This arrangement has worked more than fine for this forum and the offsite chat. The RMB is not inherently special in any way that would require special accommodations or these sudden questions about how "trustworthy" administrators truly are.

Never said it was, I was asked a question, I answered as a person. My identity is in no way, shape, or form ruled by the rmb. It’s a tool, like many others, to communicate.

Don’t confuse like and trust, I like most of them, those I’ve interacted with fairly regularly, even Glen. But trust? There’s very few on those lists I personally trust. Would you trust me?

I'm not confusing like and trust. I'm asking you where this distrust was every single previous time the moderation and administration time banned someone from the region (and hence the RMB).

What makes you think it wasn’t there? I’ve been in TSP a long time, I’ve seen power blocks come and go. You skate around them and avoid the fallout. I’ve a long list of friends who aren’t here anymore, for various reasons.

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