I fail to see the toxicity and insult there. You have been continually ignoring what I've been saying and sticking to the same, general, argument about all elections. I'm not entirely sure if you understand the meaning of toxicity and insulting, considering a lot of what you've been saying is a lot worse than anything that has been directed at you, yet what you say is perfectly fine, but what I said has crossed the line. Perhaps a break from the assembly might be a good idea, to give you a chance to cool off.

As an aside, I'm all for this proposal, but especially in regards to the special elections. I still maintain that they are a real pain.

Hello

Hello

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An elected delegate would have a mandate to create a cabinet, to form a government. I have absolutely zero issues with this system - as Sopo has said regarding Europeia, so too will I say regarding The North Pacific: the Assembly will have a voice here, and granted, The North Pacific's cabinet is not confirmed by the RA, the Ministers are still directly accountable to the legislators of The North Pacific and once they take their oath of office (possibly something to add here?) they can be recalled for violation of that oath, conversely, they could be recalled regardless by the RA if the RA felt they'd acted wrongly etc.

The Assembly still retains all of the power - just make sure the recall procedures are up to snuff and that all of the accountability procedures are there.

[Image: R3G1C7X.gif]  [Image: aPo7ydn.png?1] [Image: R3G1C7X.gif]

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The fact is we'll get the same people being appointed over and over again

I disagree that it'll be the same people pulled in time and time again and my reasoning is based on the fact that I, a relative newcomer to the region and politics ended up as vice delegate, a position that *is* appointed. Hile approached me to ask if I wanted to run, not the other way around. He saw potential (I'd like to think at least ;p),  I am probably one of those types of people like Sopo mentioned, I wouldn't have run for any position without being asked. I was happy to help around the region to make it a better place for everyone without any official title or having to 'battle someone else' to prove I can. When the opportunity was given and I realised how much of a difference I could make and that people had faith in me it changed my mind and made me actually want to do more.
I personally believe the issue of having the same people in the cabinet would only be the case if we voted in someone who doesn't pay attention to the potential in the region and if they're not paying attention to that then they're probably not paying attention to the region as a whole in general and that's cause for trouble, appointed cabinet or not.

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I don't like this. We've been discussing how to get more people involved and increase activity and this flies directly in the face of that. Moreover, if we're pushing to get rid of the EC, the court is appointed and now the Cabinet is appointed — we're cutting down on the Assembly's say.

I *would* be a favor of getting rid of special elections. I see no reason that the elected cabinet can't pick replacements. But I don't think we should have a fully appointed Cabinet.

I actually disagree here. We aren't cutting down on the say because we will have more candidates for Delegate/Vice Delegate in the elections. We will have better elections for this position with the winners then deciding on their preferred Cabinet which needs Assembly approval.

In my opinion, we are too small and/or inactive for an appointed cabinet. In TNP, as I see it, an appointed cabinet is succesful because new people come. Activity is higher than in TSP. If we have an appointed cabinet, not only more chances at electing our officials will disappear, but Delegates may choose to appoint the Old Guard and those who joined them over and over. After all, the only experienced and/or likeable people here are the old generation, plus some relatively new members. We are waning in activity, and that means a shrinking pool of new politicians. The Old Guard may just be chosen over and over. If you want my support for this, first our activity needs to boom and new people must get involved in our affairs. Because the only people I see in politics who actually get elected are mostly people from 3-10 years ago.

If we pass this, the forum would be less democratic than the RMB community, for pete's sake! They would elect three officials, whilist we will only elect one. One.

And here's my suggestion to stop infighting: instead of fighting in Cabinet, how about if candidates start talking to other candidates of different fields, and form alliances and support them?

You actually make a good point but are looking at wrong. We typically steer towards electing the known candidate in all races where more than one person runs. But this system would allow for newer nations to be appointed very quickly.

TNP has a ton of active citizens but the gem here is that it is the newer citizens that usually get a chance on the Cabinet. I really can see this working in our favor to boost activity. Having a Cabinet that is all working towards the same goal is much easier when one person is picking them. That one person is being empowered to do that (of course with Assembly approval of the nominees) by the Citizens.

There would still be an election for the Chair of the Assembly. What I envision happening with this is really a boom in both of those elections where we will get more quality candidates.

I do see your point, Hile. You are right.

And your proposal, I kinda agree. The Assembly still gets to approve candidates.

Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)

Local Council Member(April 24-August 11)

Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)

Quotes

"The 1% is like a 1% battery charge. It will die out if it is not charged(the charge is the 99%). But if you don't charge it, it will die for sure, sooner or later"
- Me (2001- Present)

"Change is the world's blood"
- Me (2001-Present)

[Image: 9ehfkQV.png]

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I don't think continually arguing over the same points is going to change any options so I recommend that a support of these changes motion it to vote. Of course the MoRA will have to be added in before this can be voted on. But I still think that this would be undemocratic, we would either get the same people in all the time or we would get inexperienced players being appointed and overall may work in other regions but not here.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

(This post was last modified: 01-15-2016, 03:21 PM by Punchwood.)

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Motion to vote.

Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)

Local Council Member(April 24-August 11)

Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)

Quotes

"The 1% is like a 1% battery charge. It will die out if it is not charged(the charge is the 99%). But if you don't charge it, it will die for sure, sooner or later"
- Me (2001- Present)

"Change is the world's blood"
- Me (2001-Present)

[Image: 9ehfkQV.png]

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Honestly, the more we go over this, the more I think this is a solution in search of a problem.

We actually don't have that much of a stagnant system. Look at the Cabinet: How many are hold overs? Or how many were even involved in government eight months ago?

We can have just as much of an inactive system with an appointed Cabinet as we can with an elected one. And while I appreciate that such a system has worked in TNP and Euro, I'll go back to my refrain than this is TSP. We don't need to follow other regions' leads.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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I agree with you in part, Tsu. But it's not like our system right now isn't without major flaws. There's a real likelihood of infighting. There's rarely a central vision coming from the Cabinet, because the Delegate is barely the leader most of the time, yet the Cabinet is expected to act with unity. We have a regular issue with special elections, which I think we've partially solved by making the court a single appointed position.

Then there's what I think is also an issue: elections aren't very welcoming to newcomers. Most of the time, new players need the support and endorsement of well-respected old players to successfully win an election. I think appointments can be geared towards giving the jobs to newcomers who otherwise feel they can't run in and win an election.

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I don't think that is true Glen. Scylla was elected MoRA after just two months in the region, Feirmont was elected MoRA with around 3 or 4 months of experience and was elected Delegate after just 8 months and Imki was just recently elected Delegate with just a few months of experience so I think elections are welcoming to newcomers.

Europeian Ambassador to The South Pacific
Former Local Council Member
Former Minister of Regional Affairs
Former High Court Justice

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I'm going to go ahead and second Ryccia's motion to vote.

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