While most of these are of a maximum length, the spammer one remains permanent. And for a high influence nation this unappealable ban could still last for several months until their influence decays. My previous thoughts were a bit rushed (I lost around half my original post while writing it), and I jumbled a few comments. When I mention the Delegate and CRS agreeing, under the current form of the Border Control Act they could eject any nation they chose indefinitely as spammers, and as I have said before there is no reasonable means of appealing it.

And you are correct that the recent situation was less than ideal, and I don't dispute the need for greater security powers that would have helped that situation. I think some of these in some form should be added. But the fact it could be repelled even without these increased security powers, and the relatively small consequences if they had succeeded, shows that the situation isn't as drastic as some statements I've seen claim.

I need to know who exactly you're questioning here because either you are saying that the CRS is completely untrustworthy or you don't understand the bill.

Trying to suggest that spammers or trolling deserve the right to appeal simply shows you spend little time on the RMB where spammers and trolls don't know and/or care about our laws.

Beyond that, if the nation is a high endorsement nation the CRS must be consulted. The CRS already has the power to declare a state of emergency, why would we only allow that power *after* a coup?

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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An "informal appeal" like you suggest is no appeal at all. There's no legal weight to it. No matter how valid the arguments or the level of valid regional opposition there is no means to actual appeal. If the CRS chose to they could freely ignore the banned user altogether with no legal reprecussions. I know you bring up recalls but "accept what I do or recall me" is neither a reasonable nor stable policy, and it shouldn't be relied on for that purpose.

It's still an appeal, though an implicit one by the issuing authority. That doesn't mean that a formal appeals process can't be set in place apart from this bill (and I'd encourage the LC to do so!). If you'd like to formalize appeals as part of this bill, we can probably discuss that, but logically - who would you have people appeal to when the CRS orders a border control action?

While most of these are of a maximum length, the spammer one remains permanent. And for a high influence nation this unappealable ban could still last for several months until their influence decays. My previous thoughts were a bit rushed (I lost around half my original post while writing it), and I jumbled a few comments. When I mention the Delegate and CRS agreeing, under the current form of the Border Control Act they could eject any nation they chose indefinitely as spammers, and as I have said before there is no reasonable means of appealing it.

I don't have an issue with putting in a time limit for the spammer/troll provision (in fact, there was a 1 week limit in my original proposal). Spam/Troll puppets are very, very unlikely to actually be members of the regions that will be holding a significant amount of influence in the first place.

On the influence decay, that could be several months worst case, true, but the vast majority of nations don't have the influence to reach that worst case (which would be 135 days with the current endorsement cap) - only 8 nations are at or above the maximum influence cap of 77015, and 6 of those are CRS nations. Only 6 further nations are within 20000 influence of the cap. Only 20 non-CRS nations have more than 50% of the influence cap.

By the way, the point of having an influence-based maximum limit is to save influence on the CRS members. If somebody with N influence is banjected, that costs a CRS member N influence (N/2 for the Delegate). If there were only the 1 week maximum, a trolly nation with, say, 30k starting influence could wipe out CRS influence by moving back in and engaging in the same behavior again each time when the 1 week expires, with a negligible loss of influence (49 points after a week). If several buddies do it, they can coup in a few weeks by doing this enough until no CRS member can banject the remaining buddy left in the region endorsement swapping for the Delegacy. That scenario isn't terribly unlikely, granted, but possible.

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Why on earth should a spam ban be temporary? We've been banning spammers permanently on these forums for years. Frankly, the LC's powers to moderate the RMB shouldn't be legislated by us. The high influence stuff makes sense, because that runs into security problems (don't want the LC to deplete their influence). But trolling, spamming, flaming, etc., these are all moderation issues.


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Exactly - so I'd encourage the LC to set appropriate procedures for that, and not have it dictated forum-side.

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Definitely something we'll get to work on.

Marius Rahl

Fortitudine Vincimus!

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It's been a long discussion of how security should work in this region and finally we've taken one step to protect us from regional threats.

Support.

Escade

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Anything else? Anybody with Faren here?

If not, I'll motion soon.

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I'll second soon

-Griffindor/Ebonhand
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seconded, let's pass this damn bill


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It's been 5 days since Far's last post in this thread, that's ample time to raise further objections.

Benevolent Thomas-Today at 11:15 AM
"I'm not sure if Altmoras has ever been wrong about anything."

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