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***Roavin*** · 05-04-2018, 09:35 AM

At the moment, bribery is not prohibited by the criminal code, and therefore legal (you could do some mental gymnastics to make it actionable in certain cases, but you'd need to do some Mall-style lawyering to get that through). I want to start a general discussion on bribery.

First, should bribery be illegal?

Second, how do we define bribery? There are some definitions available online which seem applicable, though they seem to me on the face to not all be fully equivalent. For example, pretty much all definitions would consider it a bribe if a CoA candidate offered a deputy position in exchange for an exclusive vote in the election, while only some would consider it a bribe if a party leader is petitioned to endorse a candidate in exchange for that candidate voting for the party's preference. There are other examples too.

(This post was last modified: 05-17-2018, 06:52 PM by Nakari.)

Resentine · 05-04-2018, 09:54 AM

1. Yes

2. The exchange of currency, digital or physical, with the intention of committing or ignoring prohibited activities in the South Pacific.

Probably needs expansion but that's a good place to start.

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(This post was last modified: 05-04-2018, 09:55 AM by Resentine.)

Nakari · 05-04-2018, 10:15 AM

I suppose it could be a variation on what we already have for corruption: "the misuse of public office for private or personal advantage." This could be expanded to include offices being run for, and intended misuse, to cover cases such as the CoA example.

The example of the candidate voting for party preference would need a different law if that was the definition we decided on because voting is a right of all legislators rather than conferred by public office.

So perhaps we would need a distinction between the bribe offering being from public office, being from general rights, or being from outside the game entirely (offering money/stamps/items whatever).

(This post was last modified: 05-04-2018, 10:45 AM by Nakari.)

***sandaoguo*** · 05-04-2018, 10:44 AM

Bribery is a form of corruption, which is a very broad set of shady behaviors.

Do we actually have any instances of people using money to influence decisions?

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Resentine · 05-04-2018, 11:02 AM

I dunno about TSP history, but there are several cases GP side, where parties have attempted or committed bribery via the stamp system.

Most recent case I can think of for attempts was Lenlyvit in Lazarus attempting to get TBH to help the CU.

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The Serres Republic · 05-05-2018, 11:30 AM

This is one of those things that should be prohibited by law but isn’t for some reason. I support this idea

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***Roavin*** · 05-06-2018, 11:04 AM

I didnt' mean for RL money - that would actually be a violation of NS rules! I meant something particularly like my CoA example. Exchange vote for guarantee of position.

The reason I don't think it's defined as is, is because our criminal code is (imho unnecessarily) specific about what each crime is. So anything that falls outside that doesn't need Mall to lawyer away.

***sandaoguo*** · 05-06-2018, 12:20 PM

In that case, I think the definition should really only cover things of monetary value and patronage. Patronage being promising or seeking to secure an official government position in exchange for votes.

I don’t think parties exchanging endorsements or agreeing to vote on particular candidates is bribery in any sense of the word. Grouping together to elect a preferred candidate only results in that candidate being elected, rather than any actual tangible benefit/good/office.

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Escade · 05-06-2018, 12:46 PM

I def. think offering positions in exchange for votes is a very weird situation and if that is under bribery and not also election fraud then we should make it clearer for either section.

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(This post was last modified: 05-06-2018, 01:05 PM by Escade.)

***Roavin*** · 05-06-2018, 01:32 PM

(05-06-2018, 12:20 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: In that case, I think the definition should really only cover things of monetary value and patronage. Patronage being promising or seeking to secure an official government position in exchange for votes.

I don’t think parties exchanging endorsements or agreeing to vote on particular candidates is bribery in any sense of the word. Grouping together to elect a preferred candidate only results in that candidate being elected, rather than any actual tangible benefit/good/office.

Bingo, this is why I started the discussion. I fully agree with you.