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The Sakhalinsk Empire · 01-12-2019, 11:47 PM

(01-12-2019, 12:05 PM)Belschaft Wrote: Considering that the Chair doesn't have to have a deputy - and many have chosen not to - it is necessary to allow Legislators to act "as" Chair in their absence, even if only to initiate a recall vote.

It's not a loophole.

- - -

Also, the Chair can't "direct" themselves to do something; that's a logical absurdity and clumsy writing. If the Chair is to be given discretionary powers to choose whether or not to do something then the law should be written in language which clearly expresses that.

Which means...

Legislative Procedure Act Wrote:(6) Any bill, resolution or amendment which has been inactive for more than one month shall be considered defunct and archived, unless the Chair decides otherwise.

(7) Should any bill, resolution or amendment become law, the document itself, its debate thread, and its voting thread and results shall all be archived.2. Powers and Responsibilities of the Chair

(1) The Chair is responsible for creating voting threads and recording votes. In the event that the Chair does not perform these duties in a reasonable time frame, at least one of their chosen deputiesany legislator may create voting threads and record votes.

(2) In the event that the Chair has not selected any deputies, a legislator shall be chosen as the acting Chair and shall be granted the privileges to create voting threads and record votes.

The Sakhalinsk Empire, Legislator of the South Pacific
Currently a citizen and legislator of TSP. I am active as Sverigesriket in Europe.

Complete Conflict of Interest

(This post was last modified: 01-12-2019, 11:47 PM by The Sakhalinsk Empire.)

***Roavin*** · 01-13-2019, 12:09 AM

Alternative suggestion regarding that not-really-loophole: Something like "In the event that the Chair, or a duly chosen surrogate, ..." rather than your changes.

**Amerion** · 01-13-2019, 04:15 AM

(01-12-2019, 11:47 PM)The Sakhalinsk Empire Wrote:
Legislative Procedure Act Wrote:...
(2) In the event that the Chair has not selected any deputies, a legislator shall be chosen as the acting Chair and shall be granted the privileges to create voting threads and record votes.

Who and how will the Legislator be chosen?

Bzerneleg · 01-13-2019, 04:41 AM

Taking into consideration the comments made by Belschaft, The Sakhalinsk Empire and Roavin, I propose the following:

Quote:(6) Any bill, resolution or amendment which has been inactive for more than one month shall be considered defunct and archived, unless the Chair decides otherwise.

(7) Should any bill, resolution or amendment become law, the document itself, its debate thread, and its voting thread and results shall all be archived.

2. Powers and Responsibilities of the Chair

(1) The Chair is responsible for creating voting threads and recording votes in a . In the event that the Chair does not perform these duties in a reasonable time frame, at least one of their chosen deputies any legislator may create voting threads and record votes.

or

(1) The Chair is responsible for creating voting threads and recording votes. In the event that the Chair, or a duly chosen surrogate, does not perform these duties in a reasonable time frame, the Cabinet shall designate a legislator as Acting Chair and shall be granted the privileges to create voting threads and record votes.

The Cabinet is given by the Charter the power to appoint a legislator to be Acting Chair during the period when there is no Chair prior to a CoA election. (Section 4, Article 4 of the Charter of the South Pacific) Therefore, I think it would be more uniform and organized to leave the power to Cabinet, and we can have trust in them that they will pick a competent legislator to get the job done right.

However, there are two drafts of Section 1 that I will leave it up to fellow legislators to decide on which one is better. The first one does not mention explicitly the procedure for when the Chair is not recording the votes, based on the fact that the Charter has already given the Cabinet the power to appoint an interim Chair in the event of a vacancy and that there is no deputy. The second one does not.

BZERNELEG

South Pacifican. Public Servant. Creator. In that order.

Positions

Official Thread • Lampshade Broadcasting Company • The Tsunamy Institution of the Law and Public Policy

**Rebeltopia** · 01-14-2019, 09:53 AM

The point of ANY legislator doing it is to keep things moving. As anyone whos ever been in the Cabinet can tell you, it can be a pain to get everyone together in a timely manor to get anything discussed and voted on. Id prefer to leave section 2 as it is.

I can take or leave the rest of this bill.

"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011

One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels
The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium

POSITIONS! POSITIONS, EVERYONE!!

Quotes

***sandaoguo*** · 01-14-2019, 10:40 AM

I do have to agree that allowing *any* legislators to open a vote is an explicitly intended feature of the system. It was written in response to past problems of Chairs being on vacation, temporarily inactive, etc., and bills lingering on the floor. It’s also a protection against political delays.

Every legislator is equal in the Assembly. The Chair isn’t supposed to be “the boss.” They’re just the secretary.

Having the Cabinet get involved in picking the Chair is a separation of powers violation. The Assembly is designed to operate without a Chair, if need be. There’s never a reason why another branch would need to appoint anyone.

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(This post was last modified: 01-14-2019, 10:42 AM by sandaoguo.)

The Sakhalinsk Empire · 01-15-2019, 08:53 AM

(01-14-2019, 10:40 AM)sandaoguo Wrote: I do have to agree that allowing *any* legislators to open a vote is an explicitly intended feature of the system. It was written in response to past problems of Chairs being on vacation, temporarily inactive, etc., and bills lingering on the floor. It’s also a protection against political delays.

Every legislator is equal in the Assembly. The Chair isn’t supposed to be “the boss.” They’re just the secretary.

Having the Cabinet get involved in picking the Chair is a separation of powers violation. The Assembly is designed to operate without a Chair, if need be. There’s never a reason why another branch would need to appoint anyone.

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Thinking about it for a while, this is true. The Cabinet is the executive branch and should stay out of the Assembly, which is the legislative branch. Simply allow the Assembly to appoint an Acting Chair, and all is well.

The Sakhalinsk Empire, Legislator of the South Pacific
Currently a citizen and legislator of TSP. I am active as Sverigesriket in Europe.

Complete Conflict of Interest

**Rebeltopia** · 01-15-2019, 09:29 AM

The Assembly would be in the process of picking a new chair... It'd be a new election. But, in the mean time, if something needs to be done - brought to vote, vote closed, etc. - ANY Legislator should be able to complete those actions.

"...if you're normal, the crowd will accept you. But if you're deranged, the crowd will make you their leader." - Christopher Titus
Deranged in NS since 2011

One and ONLY minion of LadyRebels
The OUTRAGEOUS CRAZY other half of LadyElysium

POSITIONS! POSITIONS, EVERYONE!!

Quotes

Bzerneleg · 01-15-2019, 10:26 AM

(01-14-2019, 10:40 AM)sandaoguo Wrote: I do have to agree that allowing *any* legislators to open a vote is an explicitly intended feature of the system. It was written in response to past problems of Chairs being on vacation, temporarily inactive, etc., and bills lingering on the floor. It’s also a protection against political delays.

Every legislator is equal in the Assembly. The Chair isn’t supposed to be “the boss.” They’re just the secretary.

Having the Cabinet get involved in picking the Chair is a separation of powers violation. The Assembly is designed to operate without a Chair, if need be. There’s never a reason why another branch would need to appoint anyone.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with your statement that the principle of separation of powers must be preserved and that the Chair of the Assembly is primus inter pares. Based on recommendations given by other Legislators and noticing that there has been sufficient debate, I shall motion the following proposal to vote:

Amendment to the Legislative Procedure Act

BZERNELEG

South Pacifican. Public Servant. Creator. In that order.

Positions

Official Thread • Lampshade Broadcasting Company • The Tsunamy Institution of the Law and Public Policy

(This post was last modified: 01-15-2019, 11:47 AM by Bzerneleg.)

**Amerion** · 01-15-2019, 11:11 AM

(01-15-2019, 10:26 AM)Bzerneleg Wrote: ... I shall motion the following proposal to vote:

Amendment to the Legislative Procedure Act

Legislative Procedure Act

An Act to define the procedural rules of the Assembly

1. Legislative Rules

(1) Any legislator may propose a bill, resolution, or appointment, which will be debated and refined collectively in the assembly under the guidance of the Chair.

(2) To be brought to a vote, a specific draft of a bill, resolution, or appointment must
a. receive a motion to vote by a legislator,
b. receive a second by another legislator,
c. be affirmed to be in proper formatting by the Chair, and
d. have been at debate for a minimum period of time equivalent to the length of its voting period.

(3) General laws, amendments, resolutions, and appointments will remain at vote for three days. Constitutional laws, constitutional amendments, resolutions dealing with matters of constitutional law, and treaties will remain at vote for five days.

(4) General laws, amendments, resolutions, and treaties require a simple majority of those voting to pass. Appointments, unless otherwise specified, require a simple majority of those voting to pass. Constitutional laws, constitutional amendments, and resolutions dealing with matters of constitutional law require a three-fifths supermajority of those voting to pass.

(5) Should a debate lead to multiple competing bills or resolutions on the same matter, the Chair will separately and simultaneously bring the competing bills or resolutions to vote, in the same manner as regular business is done. The bill or resolution that receives the most votes in favor and meets minimum threshold requirements for passage will become law.

(6) Any bill, resolution or amendment which has been inactive for more than one month shall be considered defunct and archived, unless the Chair decides otherwise.

(7) Should any bill, resolution or amendment become law, the document itself, its debate thread, and its voting thread and results shall all be archived.

2. Powers and Responsibilities of the Chair

(1) The Chair is responsible for creating voting threads and recording votes. In the event that the Chair does not perform these duties in a reasonable time frame, any legislator may create voting threads and record votes.

(2) The legislative history of each law will be recorded by the Chair. Legislative history will include reference to debate threads, voting results, and amendment history.

(3) The Chair must document the use of their discretionary powers including a rationale for using those powers in the relevant debate thread.

(4) The Chair may correct typographical errors, grammatical errors, or formatting inconsistencies at any time, as long as these corrections do not alter the original intent of the law, following a three day period in which the corrections are presented to the assembly for comments. Any such corrections must be recorded with the legislative history of each law.

(5) The Chair may delay votes for a reasonable time frame if done for the purposes of vote scheduling or to avoid preemption of active debate by a vote.

(6) The Chair may freely appoint any number of deputies, who will be authorized to perform those legislative duties of the Chair that the Chair permits. Any changes in the roster of deputies must be posted publicly.

(7) The Chair may waive the mandatory debate period remaining on a particular piece of legislation should a legislator motion for them to do so, provided that there has been no objection within 24 hours of the motion being made and seconded.

3. Constitutional Law

(1) The Legislative Procedure Act is a constitutional law, and further amendments to it must meet constitutional amendment requirements.

Article 3, Section 1 of the Law Standards Act provides:

Quote:(1) The standard format for an amendment will be to note which section of a law is being amended, and to quote only that part of the law.

Could the OP author please edit his proposal to reflect only the portions to be amended?