that would mean they would need to come here and most don't. So how do you propose to do that Tsu?

Start a discussion on the RMB? Or perhaps Jay can send a TG to the LC members?

I just think it'll be successful if we get their input rather than later — when we need to vote — be like "Hey. Did this without you all. Please vote yes!"

Edit: Just posted a note on the RMB. Everyone feel free to engage there.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

(This post was last modified: 05-26-2020, 12:30 PM by Tsunamy.)

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At any point throughout their term, the Local Council may replace the Minister of Home Affairs by a majority vote.

Couldn't this potentially cause problems with power if this were implemented since there's only 3 members on the LC, and it would only take the turn of one vote to "replace" the MoHA?

Local Councillor (3/15/20 - 6/23/20)
Deputy Minister of Educational Affairs (2/19/20 - 4/9/20)
Senior Fellow of Integration (12/20/20 - 2/19/20)
Fellow (1/12/19 - ~10/14/20) 
Ambassador to Osiris and TWP (4/3/20 - 7/8/20)
Legislator (1/19/19 - 11/1/21)
Chair of the Assembly (6/23/20 - 9/3/20)
Secretary of State (7/8/20 - 2/4/21 | 6/14/21 - 11/1/21) 
Deputy of Media (2/14/21 - 11/1/21)
Ambassador to TNP and Lazarus  (6/14/21 - 10/22/21)
MoE Leadership (10/14/20 - 11/1/21)

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Couldn't this potentially cause problems with power if this were implemented since there's only 3 members on the LC, and it would only take the turn of one vote to "replace" the MoHA?

I have changed this to unanimity.

4× Cabinet minister /// 1× OWL director /// CRS member /// SPSF

My History

(This post was last modified: 05-26-2020, 10:20 PM by Jay Coop.)

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I don't understand why we always talk about needing synergy between the different aspects of TSP. People should be able to be active wherever they find fun or interesting. Nobody says that we need R/Ders to do RP, or we need NSG folk to do issue answering. There should be responsibility for elected officials to be active and visible where needed, but I've never understood this obsession with uniting everything with ever-increasing bureaucracy. This isn't a country; it's an online game. Let people play it how they want.

Did some LC, MoRA, CRS stuff in the past. Do a lot of World Census stuff now.

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I don't understand why we always talk about needing synergy between the different aspects of TSP. People should be able to be active wherever they find fun or interesting. Nobody says that we need R/Ders to do RP, or we need NSG folk to do issue answering. There should be responsibility for elected officials to be active and visible where needed, but I've never understood this obsession with uniting everything with ever-increasing bureaucracy. This isn't a country; it's an online game. Let people play it how they want.

I agree with what you said though (especially toward those who want to put everything under one authority), however this proposal is to make communication with the LC if the cabinet needs easier. This is more of a managerial reform than anything have to do with fun or activity.

Chief Supervising Armchair

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I don't understand why we always talk about needing synergy between the different aspects of TSP. People should be able to be active wherever they find fun or interesting. Nobody says that we need R/Ders to do RP, or we need NSG folk to do issue answering. There should be responsibility for elected officials to be active and visible where needed, but I've never understood this obsession with uniting everything with ever-increasing bureaucracy. This isn't a country; it's an online game. Let people play it how they want.

Warning: You activated my old man button here.

And, I don't think we need complete synergy, I am on board for managerial coordination as Viet noted.

Here's how I've long understood this all. The forums were originally created to make sure for things that couldn't be done in-game. When all this started, there was no influence, no dispatches, no polls and the RMB only showed 10 messages at a time. So having any semblance of a democratically elected government was all but impossible (especially because once someone took over as delegate they could banject anyone who got close to them endorsements wise).

At the same time, NS proper is the game. Without that actual actual region, wtf are we doing here? 

So, this is all to say, that unlike other people who see these are different spheres within the game — RMB/forums/Discord (now I suppose?) — I see these are integrally related. Personally, the more affordances given in-game decreases the need for the forum. 

I think seeing these are different venues led to a couple major issues. First, the off-site regional government can't work without activity and that activity comes from in NS proper. We need to get new blood involved if we want this game/region to continue.

Second, without an active, native base of involvement more "cosmopolitan" nations colonize the space and bend the region toward whatever alignment debates are going on in GP. (I would argue this happened for a pretty sufficient portion of TSP history from after Fudgie/SB until relatively recently as we've finally "gone defender" although its prominence waxed and waned over time.)

And, the final part that relates to the other two is that at times the only time RMB-active nations were consulted were when we attempted a delegate transition or there was a coup and someone needed endorsements.

Anyhow, this is a long-winded way to say that I will almost always support more involvement from the RMB side (providing it's safe and secure). Imho, that is the game and all this *waves arms* is built on top of it. Without active nations from the RMB finding and sustaining this, it wouldn't exist. And that's not to say people can't play how they want; we have a several-thousand nations region, of course a majority don't want to be involved. But, we need to be as open as possible and attempt to interest as many people as possible if we want to have an active and sustainable region.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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Warning: You activated my old man button here.

And that was brilliant way to start of your rebuttal!
*Gives you brownie points*

I think seeing these are different venues led to a couple major issues. First, the off-site regional government can't work without activity and that activity comes from in NS proper. We need to get new blood involved if we want this game/region to continue.

I can agree with this statement by giving the fact that each of the laws being proposed, commented on, and passed were done by the same people time after time for months now. The only difference is is that the older, more experienced players eventually lose steam after a while. Now, that's not for all of them, but it is a general occurrence that I see/seen. Anyway, most new nations want to get involved, but then lose interest in NS after a while due to they realize how involved it is, realize the commitment required to participate in the gov't is a lot more then they realize, which it really isn't, feel that they can't contribute do to they don't think they have the necessary skill set for commenting on proposals, or figure that they can rely on the older nations to do the work for them. 

But, we need to be as open as possible and attempt to interest as many people as possible if we want to have an active and sustainable region.

I think I spoke about this above, but most of the new nations don't see how involved NS is and that it more than just RP and War, that there is a long history of setting up gov't's, legitimizing them, consolidating them, and collapsing them, and that there's a lot of effort that's been in place to set up events, setting up the laws of governance, etc. The gates are wide open Tsu, but whether they want to walk through them is another issue...

Local Councillor (3/15/20 - 6/23/20)
Deputy Minister of Educational Affairs (2/19/20 - 4/9/20)
Senior Fellow of Integration (12/20/20 - 2/19/20)
Fellow (1/12/19 - ~10/14/20) 
Ambassador to Osiris and TWP (4/3/20 - 7/8/20)
Legislator (1/19/19 - 11/1/21)
Chair of the Assembly (6/23/20 - 9/3/20)
Secretary of State (7/8/20 - 2/4/21 | 6/14/21 - 11/1/21) 
Deputy of Media (2/14/21 - 11/1/21)
Ambassador to TNP and Lazarus  (6/14/21 - 10/22/21)
MoE Leadership (10/14/20 - 11/1/21)

Reply

Warning: You activated my old man button here.

And that was brilliant way to start of your rebuttal!
*Gives you brownie points*

I think seeing these are different venues led to a couple major issues. First, the off-site regional government can't work without activity and that activity comes from in NS proper. We need to get new blood involved if we want this game/region to continue.

I can agree with this statement by giving the fact that each of the laws being proposed, commented on, and passed were done by the same people time after time for months now. The only difference is is that the older, more experienced players eventually lose steam after a while. Now, that's not for all of them, but it is a general occurrence that I see/seen. Anyway, most new nations want to get involved, but then lose interest in NS after a while due to they realize how involved it is, realize the commitment required to participate in the gov't is a lot more then they realize, which it really isn't, feel that they can't contribute do to they don't think they have the necessary skill set for commenting on proposals, or figure that they can rely on the older nations to do the work for them. 

But, we need to be as open as possible and attempt to interest as many people as possible if we want to have an active and sustainable region.

I think I spoke about this above, but most of the new nations don't see how involved NS is and that it more than just RP and War, that there is a long history of setting up gov't's, legitimizing them, consolidating them, and collapsing them, and that there's a lot of effort that's been in place to set up events, setting up the laws of governance, etc. The gates are wide open Tsu, but whether they want to walk through them is another issue... 

There is a consensus that the issue right now is not newbies losing interests. It is that in the seas of hundreds of new nations, some may be interested but no proper guidance is provided to them, hence, they migrate to other regions or lose interests. There is just no systemic programs to properly educate them on "the proper ways to participate in NS" or to make participating in them easier, no sustainability on integration projects, and some experienced leaders are simply not committed themselves enough to the cause or are too passive, or inefficient. The good thing is that has been slowly changing over time.

Chief Supervising Armchair

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wtf are we doing here? 

That is a great question.

...

...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I think I spoke about this above, but most of the new nations don't see how involved NS is and that it more than just RP and War, that there is a long history of setting up gov't's, legitimizing them, consolidating them, and collapsing them, and that there's a lot of effort that's been in place to set up events, setting up the laws of governance, etc. The gates are wide open Tsu, but whether they want to walk through them is another issue...

Of course. I'm not as familiar on the way the system is currently going to comment as finitely as Viet here, but yes, we can led a horse to water but can't make them drink ... as long as we led them there.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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