Users browsing this thread:

Jebediah · 11-24-2020, 09:14 PM

Just for the record: I am using my new format here which I will post a full-length post for soon. This is simply my opinion on the topic and ideas for possible solutions. It isn't really made for small straightforward things like this, however it can still help.

Problem
Clarifying who can be recalled

Quote:The Charter says "Any official of the Coalition may be recalled ...", but it doesn't define what an "official" is. The Elections Act, however, says "Offices of the Coalition are the Delegate, the Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers, the Chair of the Assembly, Local Councillors, the Chief Justice, and any of their appointed deputies." Does the Elections Act's definition of "offices" mean that only those officials can get recalled?

This might also cause problems later on if there is a recall of an official not included in this list.

Solutions

Possible Solutions:
Define who can be recalled
Simply add a description to the article in the charter explaining who is eligible for a recall.
+ Simple, easy to implement
- Still leaves room for confusion over other articles which use "official"

Define what an official is
Add an article to the charter explaining what is defined by a "Government Official" and simply refer to this definition in all other laws.
+ Clarifies all instances of "Official"
- Would take some time to write up
- There isn't a clear consensus about what would count as an official - if it's only elected positions/deputies or if it includes ministry employees.

As for who should be included in the recall motion in either solution, I'd say that the Elections Act officials work pretty much fine.

[Image: st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u5.jpg]

(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020, 09:17 PM by Jebediah.)

**Belschaft** · 11-24-2020, 09:27 PM

An Office of the Coalition isn’t the same things as an official of the Coalition, though I realise that is likely a bit confusing due to the similarity between the two terms. The former refers specifically to those roles listed which the Assembly has chosen to establish separation of powers around. The second is intentionally broad.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

Jebediah · 11-24-2020, 09:38 PM

(11-24-2020, 09:27 PM)Belschaft Wrote: An Office of the Coalition isn’t the same things as an official of the Coalition, though I realise that is likely a bit confusing due to the similarity between the two terms. The former refers specifically to those roles listed which the Assembly has chosen to establish separation of powers around. The second is intentionally broad.

That is fair enough - but should recalls apply to just offices or should it include the officials around it?

I seems a bit harsh to apply it to the latter (especially when the ministry can handle it internally, which is what usually happens) so it would make sense to change the wording of "recalls" to being the offices.

(This post was last modified: 11-24-2020, 09:39 PM by Jebediah.)

**Belschaft** · 11-24-2020, 09:47 PM

The recall power is intentionally not limited to just the Offices of the Coalition. There are a variety of appointed posts such as the Legislator Committee, Committee on Regional Security, Generals Corps and Associate Justices which it is meant to apply to.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

**Farengeto** · 11-25-2020, 02:56 PM

(11-24-2020, 09:47 PM)Belschaft Wrote: The recall power is intentionally not limited to just the Offices of the Coalition. There are a variety of appointed posts such as the Legislator Committee, Committee on Regional Security, Generals Corps and Associate Justices which it is meant to apply to.

And with the way deputies work, one could argue the reverse too, that there are some Offices of the Coalition that aren't supposed to be able to be recalled.

Jebediah · 11-25-2020, 03:59 PM

Well, perhaps it would be better if we could identify what we want the recall power to be used for and then just find everything that fits that.

Do we want this recall power to apply to anyone in the department, only the leaders and the deputies or only the leaders?

Also, can the assembly actually recall a non-elected official? The charter doesn't actually talk about employees of the executive, so if the assembly had the power to recall these employees then would that violate due process? Should we clarify this?

**Belschaft** · 11-25-2020, 04:17 PM

Recall definitely applies to non-elected officials.

I think an argument could be made that recall shouldn't apply to officials who weren’t confirmed by the Assembly or elected to office, but my own preference would be to retain the broadest possible definition. I can think of a variety of circumstances where the Assembly might wish to recall a Deputy Minister or Deputy Chair, a Cabinet Advisor or even an individual member of a ministry.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

(This post was last modified: 11-25-2020, 05:49 PM by Belschaft.)

***Kris Kringle*** · 11-25-2020, 05:31 PM

(11-25-2020, 04:17 PM)Belschaft Wrote: I think an argument could be made that recall shouldn't apply to officials who were confirmed by the Assembly or elected to office

That would be an...interesting argument that would run contrary to how all recalls in our regional history have been used.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

**Belschaft** · 11-25-2020, 05:49 PM

(11-25-2020, 05:31 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote:
(11-25-2020, 04:17 PM)Belschaft Wrote: I think an argument could be made that recall shouldn't apply to officials who were confirmed by the Assembly or elected to office

That would be an...interesting argument that would run contrary to how all recalls in our regional history have been used.

Typo’s <_<

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

(This post was last modified: 11-25-2020, 05:50 PM by Belschaft.)

***Kris Kringle*** · 11-25-2020, 05:56 PM

Ah, that makes more sense!

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System