| Recall: Minister of Foreign Affairs |
(08-27-2014, 06:31 PM)Cormac Wrote: Get over yourselves. I think it was Gandhi who said "be the change you want to see in the world". :sleepy: Southern Bellz Wrote:That being said the complete abuse that is happening in this assembly is way more embarrassing and offensive than anything gr said. TSP isn't a proxy for other regional interests. Say what you want about GR but he is ours, he plays in TSP and he has more than proved he belongs here. We rarely agree, but well said, SB.
By the way, as per our Code of Laws, I will be bringing this to vote August 29th - Friday.
It's blatantly obvious how this vote will go given Cormacs poor attitude.
(08-27-2014, 06:31 PM)Cormac Wrote: Believe it or not, though I appreciate that some of you have an inflated view of your own importance, Osiris does not regard The South Pacific as important enough to meddle in its internal affairs to achieve any Osiran objectives, even if Osiris were inclined to behave in such a way, which it isn't.Get over yourselves. If I were going to meddle in a region for foreign interests there would be more relevant candidates. In the future, Cormac, you may want to try and conduct yourself in a calm, collected and respectful manner. It helps when you're trying to influence others to your point of view.
I honestly don't care anymore, after having my character unjustifiably attacked not only by Glen -- which I expected -- but by Southern Bellz. If the other citizens of TSP want to keep a Minister of Foreign Affairs who is wrecking the region's diplomatic standing because they don't like my attitude:
a) That is a ridiculous reason for any government decision. b) TSP deserves whatever it gets as a result of retaining Glen. But no, I will not behave in a calm, collected, respectful manner when others are treating me like dirt. I've never done anything in this region to warrant that kind of treatment and if I'm going to be baselessly accused of being a villain, I'll act like one.
(08-27-2014, 11:54 PM)Cormac Wrote: b) TSP deserves whatever it gets as a result of retaining Glen. This is a suspicious statement coming from someone who claims to be loyal to TSP. Especially how you have removed yourself - a citizen - from TSP with your rhetoric. Are you sure you're acting and speaking in the best interests of TSP? It sounds more like propaganda to me.
United States of Kalukmangala
Former High Court Justice
Ever seen that episode of NCIS when a suspect's chewing tobacco was laced with PCP and he freaked out in the interrogation room yelling "THEY'RE TRYING TO DESTROY ME!!!"
That's pretty much this whole thing in a nut shell.
I don't think Glenn is doing a great job, and I think I made that pretty clear. But he's won two elections after being recalled, he has a mandate to govern and I think his off hand comment isn't anything new to people who interact with him. It lacks tact, I agree, and I hope GR learns from this thread that he should show more respect.
If you're going to be offended by every descending opinion, I don't think you should be suggesting recalls while closing relations with us on another nation. You have a conflict of interest. Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
The 16th Delegate of The South Pacific
SB more or less sums up my views in regards to this.
Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making
Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator ![[Image: B9ytUsy.png]](https://i.imgur.com/B9ytUsy.png)
The concept of duality is important within the feeder and sinker regions. Some use it religiously, declining to acknowledge their presence in two (or more) separate feeder/sinker regions (a method that I employed when I served in multiple game-created regional cabinets at the same time in order to prevent conflicts of interest, and ensure that I was not accused of any behaviour which would have unfairly benefited one region I was affiliated with at the expense of another. To the same effect, I have never sought office in this region preferring to participate as a member of the Assembly), unlike others who may use it to advance their interests of the regions they're a member of at the expense of others.
Cormac has not in my experience ever used his membership of the South Pacific to push third party interests, i.e. Osiran interests within the Assembly. Osiris' government has generally enjoyed good relations with the executive of the South Pacific, at least it did during my tenure in the Government of Osiris (both KRO and OFO). Even when "political" and "diplomatic" relations were not in good shape, the Delegates of the South Pacific and the relevant people in Osiris always got along well. This information may not be current, I should note that I have been retired from any involvement in Osiran society since the start of June when I blanket left every region besides Equilism and before that, had not been actively involved in Osiran foreign affairs since a month before. I've always considered it vital when in the Government of a feeder/sinker relating to Foreign Affairs to try and maintain relationships with our various sister/twin regions. Accusing him {Cormac} of being a mouthpiece for another region makes as much sense as accusing GR or Unibot as being a mouthpiece for the United Defenders League, or the Rejected Realms (in Unibot's case). If it is not acceptable in one case, then it should not be acceptable at all. Perhaps members of the assembly should refrain from accusing people of being foreign influences, if only to try and retain some sense of professionalism that we'd expect from a regional legislature of this calibre, experience and history. The point of this motion/thread from the original post, was not that Glen Rhodes has been trying to subvert the independence of our region {the South Pacific} but related to comments made by the Minister regarding a sensitive matter that has prompted reactions from a sister feeder, the East Pacific in perceived defence of their own, plus others who viewed the subject of those remarks as an ally/friend or even chess piece. I'm not going to delve into the difference as most people in Gameplay will shift their attitude and plans when it's convenient for them. What the Assembly needs to decide, based on these events is whether the Minister has acted wrongly, and whether relations with The East Pacific have been damaged - whether they are treatied allies or not, relations between feeders should not be taken lightly. The other charge has been that the Minister has damaged the network of foreign relations for our region. I believe that this is a reference to the nullification of the treaties with The New Inquisition and Kantrias over claims that the South Pacific has shifted or is in the process of shifting to an alignment which makes the treaties redundant and untenable. It is also possible that the comments by citizens in good standing in regions of good repute, such as those by Magister Tano Holland of the East Pacific, made here, by Magister Prussia; here, by Senator Applebania of Equilism; here, Vizier BGP of the East Pacific; here in response to comments made by the Minister could be viewed as putting our Minister in a negative light and by association the South Pacific where he is most prominent as a member of our cabinet, specifically as Minister of Foreign Affairs. Such a role is easily the most public and important in how members of the wider NS world perceive our region and our policies, his opinions/persona/comments are probably the most important outside of the Delegate in terms of how we are perceived by allies and non-allies alike. This is what we need to look at, to think about and when the vote comes, (my thanks to Chairperson Unibot for scheduling it for the 29th of this month) vote as we see best. The most unfortunate part of the job of Foreign Minister is that when conducting themselves in areas like Gameplay, you need to moderate what you say in order to prevent it being construed against you and generating situations like this thread. It is generally why in the public sphere, even as an unaffiliated independent-aligned diplomat, I keep my thoughts generally moderate. Sarcasm does not go over well on the internet. By associating himself with this entire event - it would have been best to have said absolutely nothing, given that the Minister has stated in the past that people will jump on him for absolutely any reason - and by commenting he opened himself up to his detractors, as well as those who do have an interest at seeing The South Pacific go one way, or another. In short, the Minister is an astute diplomat, one of the more astute members of the general diplomatic cadre in NationStates, as I've said in the past. By commenting on this situation with the full knowledge of his detractors in NationStates, I don't believe that he didn't realise what would happen. It is regrettable, and disappointing as our Foreign Minister should be mindful of his actions and the feelings his comments will incite. Ignorance is not bliss, especially when being a high profile member of one of the oldest democracies in NationStates and sometimes giving an opinion will have consequences - whether the opinion was made in an official, or unofficial view as the Minister experienced when Chair of the Assembly in the past. The situation is lamentable and unpleasant for all involved. -- at Justice Berr: It can be easier to shift to a more neutral tone or third person when discussing regions, I had a habit of doing it fairly often back when I was involved with multiple feeders and sinkers as a diplomat. You'll probably see me doing the exact same thing when it comes to debates over foreign policy (my area of expertise) as I find it tends to help me distance my thoughts from bias. You'll see it in my above post, especially when I am consulting and referencing other posts/threads/users/officials.
Nobody here is saying that merely being a member of another region or organization automatically causes a conflict of interest. As Southern Bellz alluded it, it's the confluence of events that makes this particular motion highly questionable. Cormac severed what little relations Osiris had with The South Pacific. I was defending Lazarus' decision to change forums at the time, pushing back against biased media articles that were scant on facts. I also criticized Osiris' declaration of war on Lazarus, specifically for using The South Pacific as a crutch and for what I genuinely perceive as hypocrisy when it comes to threatening statements that may be made in jest. (Ie. Venico's comments that TSP is "on the market" without UIAF protection, which were not serious enough to warrant removing Venico from any powerful positions, but declaring war on Lazarus in part because Karpathos made a similar joke and still holds power in Lazarus.)
Coming to the Assembly with a recall motion based upon those comments and traditional tit-for-tat matches that happen all the time in NS Gameplay makes this motion different. The motivation is not that I have tarnished TSP's reputation abroad (I do not believe I have), but rather that I was being antagonistic towards Osiris' agenda. That's what creates a conflict of interests. Nobody here can deny that if I went to Osiris and pushed for the ouster of Cormac or Douria, I would be strung up and would not only lose my job here, but would forever be mocked for even trying it. It's just not proper. I maintain that the problem here is not me participating in NS Gameplay discussion. Nobody else in this game is ever chastised and threatened with recall for doing so with the frequency I am, even though they say much more incendiary things on a regular basis. As far as being moderate, I am one of the more relatively moderate participants on that forum. What I'm not moderate in is my stance on the UIAF and my skepticism about Independence as a guiding ideology. That is what's made me unpopular. The only people who ever cause a stink about my participation in NS Gameplay are those who get offended by any perceived slight against imperialism or Independence. My very presence in TSP's Cabinet has caused conspiracies to float about in certain groups that TSP is no longer Independent, and certainly we are no longer as attached to imperialism as we used to be. It's not about any specific comments I make. It doesn't matter what I say, as has been shown time and again when I explicitly spell out TSP's foreign policy agenda both in public and in private. The bottom like is that I made an innocuous statement (certainly less incendiary than the claims that were being made in total ignorance about Lazarene officials) that Hobbes isn't freaking out about. Cormac -- viewing me as a pro-Lazarus enemy by this point in time -- twisted it and insisted that I was accusing Hobbes of actual forum destruction. Hobbes and I have since TG'd each other privately, and I would be shocked if there's any ill will between us. But that hasn't stopped Cormac from latching on to a convenient attack point. I also reject the notion that the UIAF's unilateral dissolution of relations means TSP is somehow more isolated or that it's foreign affairs has been irreparably damaged. I've already explained myself and apologized when it was warranted. However, in the meantime, we've expanded our GCR allies and we've been invited to two high-level diplomatic conferences. Perhaps TSP's image is damaged among imperialists, and perhaps even among the more raider-leaning Independent regions out there. That is not because of anything I've actually done. It's because of the perception that I'm single-handedly (or, in some versions, in unison with Unibot) manipulating TSP into going defender. That's a perception I've frequently fought back against, including preparing to embark on a diplomatic agenda specifically to work with non-defenders. Whatever lasting damage there is to TSP's foreign affairs, it's entirely because of regions who believe TSP can either be Independent or can have alliances with defenders, but can't have both. I reject that notion, so I reject that TSP's foreign affairs have been irreparably harmed. |
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I am a Super Villain
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