The SPSF mandate in Fandom Alliance will shortly end, but I feel it is important for the Assembly to discuss whether these sorts of missions should continue.

I have included in this post, a copy of the World Factbook Entry and quotations from the Regional Message Board from concerned natives. These quotations reveal the fear and confusion which we subject players to with these occupations. We've never interacted with Fandom Alliance prior to this invasion, thus, as far as I am concerned, they did not deserve this treatment from The South Pacific.

I think it is disturbing that these players do not know what is going on; they are, essentially, frightened new(-ish) players, who would just like to keep their home safe and yet this drama continues without their consent - and we played a role in this. If these were citizens of The South Pacific, their voices of dissent would be disconcerting to all of us, but just because they're citizens of some distant region does not mean they are worth 'this'.

I believe this was a shameful act and The South Pacific should not be proud that it invaded Fandom Alliance - a region of seven WAs, who never did anything to hurt The South Pacific. There's nothing patriotic or redeeming about projecting your own influence over innocent communities like Fandom Alliance. We could strive to make the SPSF something that we could all be proud of, and strive for The South Pacific to uphold a higher standard of conduct abroad, but until then I do not want to be an accomplice or a passive observer to this behavior and I felt that it was important that someone in the Assembly voiced the concerns of the natives in Fandom Alliance who had no voice on December 06, 2014. We can be better than this. 

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[Image: 8qhMYoD.png]

Damn raiders. This is why we refound.

Raiders, why do you claim to represent the pacifics. They aren't militarized regions.

Bloody damn hell, Shrek! You never said that there were twenty something endorsements for the raiders!

And they are not Black Riders! At least Blackies have a code of NOT banjecting people! These guys have no such code!

We do not require any assistance in the refounding of our region. We only wish for a return to native rule that was in place before your "training exercise". If you would please give us a timeline for your withdrawal it would be much appreciated. The sooner this occupation ends the better for all parties involved.

O.o so this is a raid.

It would be nice if your leader would respond to telegrams, but I guess I'll just ask everyone: Why do you associate yourselves with the pacifics. They aren't raiders, so why are you misusing their name

And even if they were raiders, why invade this small region?

Hey, I just got here I am new to this can someone explain whats going on in like regional talk?

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Yours sincerely,
Unibot.
Chair of the Assembly.

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The South Pacific will not become a defender region.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

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*rolls eyes*

Oh goody, now we get to have the same arguments in public.

[Image: R3G1C7X.gif]  [Image: aPo7ydn.png?1] [Image: R3G1C7X.gif]

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I don't want this to be a R/D debate, happy for the SPSF to do either, as long as it doesn't hurt our reputation as a region. I think the lack of response to the residents of the raided region here may be doing so. That's my only real concern with the whole thing.

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The op's over, our part of the mission is done. We're departing tonight.

DMoRA of the CIA
MoA
Officer in the SPSF

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Aram, this is obviously a R/D debate. Unibot didn't say it explicitly, but he is proposing that we stop raiding, even if it will strengthen our relationships with our treaty allies, and only defend from now on.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

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I appreciate that you're sharing your opinions on this, because you feel so strongly about it. It's fair to invite the Assembly to have this discussion. It's clear that there are some citizens here who are also uncomfortable with what happened in this mission, and it's important for us to not shut down any discussion about the SPSF's actions simply because some don't like to revisit the topic of raiding and defending.


I do find it worrying that several of those players specifically asked why The South Pacific was involved in raiding their region. It's evidence of what I discussed in my strategic assessment. We are not a raider region, so when we do raid, we don't get the reputational benefit of appearing as the "evil raiders" to other players. Many there believed we don't raid, and now their opinions of us are negative. We received no benefit from this mission, just costs. That's something I think we need to discuss as a region.

Aram mentioned in the other thread on this mission that we should explain what we're doing when we do missions. I think that's a very good idea. The SPSF should send a TG or write on the RMB (preferably a TG, though, so that we don't deface their RMB with messages they might not want) explaining that we didn't do anything out of malice, explain what the R/D game is and how they could get involve, and let them know when we plan on leaving and that we'll restore the WFE to its original state before doing so. It might also be worthwhile to consider helping return the former Delegate to power, if we have the spare resources to do so. This would make every mission an educational and recruitment opportunity.

Also, I was reading TNP's laws earlier this week and noticed their code of conduct for the North Pacific Armed Forces. It's worth debating if we should emulate our ally's approach to military code of conduct, which helps mitigate the costs we bear when we raid.

Chapter 8: The North Pacific Army Doctrine

1. The North Pacific Armed Forces (the NPAF) has five primary purposes:
a. To protect and defend the region of The North Pacific;
b. To protect and defend the allies of The North Pacific;
c. To assist the allies and friends of The North Pacific in whatever capacity is available;
d. To maintain a well trained military;
e. To implement regional defense and diplomatic policies as adopted under the laws of The North Pacific.

2. The NPAF is always permitted, consistent with adopted regional defense and diplomatic policies, to deploy under the following circumstances:
a. To counter or preemptively stop:
i) A direct threat to The North Pacific;
ii) A direct threat to an ally of The North Pacific;

b. To assist a region or organization as permitted by the delegate, an existing treaty, or the Executive Officer charged with military affairs;
c. Upon the orders of the appointed Executive Officer charged with military affairs or a person thus delegated to act in their name; and
d. The Regional Assembly may mandate that the NPAF follow through on a declaration of war or a policy approved by the Regional Assembly.

3. The NPAF must follow all of the following criteria on every mission in foreign regions, except against designated enemy regions:
a. Minimize collateral damage;
b. Respect the culture of the region and the wishes of the natives;
c. Minimize threat to The North Pacific and allies;
d. Restore region to its original state before leaving;
e. Contact the most recent native delegate when acting proactively;

4. The NPAF must operate so that:
a. The Delegate can issue a blanket approval for the NPAF to work with a given organisation. The Executive Officer charged with military affairs or the Delegate must still authorize individual missions.
b. Any NPAF member may refuse to take part in any mission which does not directly impact TNP security for any reason that the Executive Officer charged with military affairs or the Delegate determines is reasonable.
c. The Regional Assembly may override by simple majority vote any NPAF deployment not previously approved by the Regional Assembly. The Speaker shall accept motions to override for voting on an expedited basis.

5. The NPAF must not do the following except following: (a) a regional consensus toward a region at war with TNP or (b) a request from a recognized government in exile of that region:
a. Remove any residents from an invaded region that resided in the region prior to said invasion;
b. Act with any degree of disrespect;
c. Alter the region's chosen embassy list against the wishes of the region's natives.

6. The NPAF leadership is empowered with the ability to determine the cosmetic details of military, including name, ranks and insignia, pending the outcome of a poll of active NPAF members.

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We received no benefit from this mission, just costs.

What the hell is that supposed to mean? So now working towards strengthening our alliance with the North Pacific has no benefits for us? I find that reasoning to be completely ridiculous. And please don't say that is not what you said, because O know what exactly what you said, and the implication was there.

Our Special Forces did nothing wrong here. Their job is not to play nice with the regions we raid. Their job is to help with regional activity, and with strengthening our alliances. Fandom Alliance is not our ally, the North Pacific is.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

(This post was last modified: 12-09-2014, 12:10 AM by sandaoguo.)

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I found that mission to be in poor taste. This seems more like something The Black Riders or the UIAF would do. They pride themselves on dominating small regions, overshadowed into obscurity by the more well known regions in NS. The fact that we used them as a stepping stone in the name of good relations with our allies is deplorable.

Punchwood pointed out that they were contemplating on refounding the region to prevent things like this. Was this a matter of convenience or coincidence? If this was convenient for us, we had no right to take it upon ourselves to use them. They did not ask for, nor need help in refounding the region. This gave us some unnecessary bad publicity.

Furthermore, this could have been handled much better than it was. We left them in the dark as to what was happening , our intentions for disrupting their peaceful corner of NS and how long we intend to occupy their region which may very well lead to the unintended destruction of the region.

I'm not saying we don't participate in raiding. I'm just saying this could have been planned out better. Even if we pull out of the region, we're still responsible for what happens afterwards.
As far as TNP's policy on the matter, I think they have the right idea.

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I am a Super Villain

Animefan666 (me): One day I'd like to wipe out humanity...and maybe conquer the city. Ya know, the usual.
Then, once everyone is a zombie, we all starve and Serling dies. A perfect end to a doomed city.
Zombie61: /Rename Animefan666 to The-Brain.
Animefan666: So, now that we've established that I am Brain, who will be my not so brainy sidekick Pinky?

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Kris: You suddenly remind me of Magneto's White House Speech in Days of Future Past.
TAC: So who's gonna be my right hand mutant?

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Fortunado: And now i need something to restore my faith in humanity... been a struggle to stop losing it.
LeSageStupide: Have you ever just stared at TAC's avatar for a while? It helps a lot.

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We receive no benefit, because we aren't a raider region that recruits based on fronting an "evil raider" persona like The Black Riders, The Black Hawks, etc. When we raid a region, the players there don't know the nuances of TSP's foreign policy. They just know that we raided for some reason. TBR and all the other black-hat raiders have an inherent recruitment opportunity there, for any of the players who find their regional themes to be cool or interesting.

It's not enough, for me, to say that we "strengthened our alliance." We could have done it through other means, like a Warzone, or, yes Kris, defending. If we're going to raid, we need to confront the actual costs it has to our region, and discuss ways to mitigate those costs. Instead of just shutting down conversations, accusing people of trying to force TSP to become defender, and saying we don't care one bit about anybody else. We're a feeder region. Our job is to make this game enjoyable for everybody.

(This post was last modified: 12-09-2014, 12:17 AM by Tsunamy.)

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