| For Something a Little Different |
(04-29-2016, 12:04 PM)sandaoguo Wrote:(04-29-2016, 08:38 AM)Tsunamy Wrote: It's a mechanism for responsibility, Glen. We've had these discussions among ourselves, but the admin team needs to be responsible to SOMEONE. This circular logic of admins disciplining admins and deciding when and how admins can do what they do isn't right and in seriously sowing seeds of discontent. Glen -- no one has to learn to live with this game! This isn't the real world where people have to live with it. You know what happens when people don't like what's happening? They leave! We've seen plenty of this. And, I tend to think that people are really more reasonable than you make them out to be.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
I suggest that the creators of the proposed Charters work together and fuse them together to create one very strong Charter. From there we will open up one more discussion over the final bugs, then a vote.
-Griffindor/Ebonhand
-Current Roles/Positions -Legislator 2/24/20- -High Court Justice 6/7/20- -South Pacific Coral Guard 11/17/20- -Minister of Engagement 6/17/22- -Past Roles/Positions -Legislator 7/3/16-4/10/18 -Secretary of State 4/3/20-2/24/21 -Chair of the APC 9/24/16-5/31/17 -Vice-Chair of the APC 6/1/17-4/10/18 -Local Council Member 7/1/17-11/17/17 -Citizen 5/2012-12/2014 and 2/26/16-7/3/2016
Then let them leave, Tsu. A game where admins change with the winds isn't worth it just to keep a couple people playing, imo.
I'm never going to heartbroken over somebody leaving because they create some conspiracy about admin corruption. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(04-30-2016, 06:03 PM)sandaoguo Wrote: Then let them leave, Tsu. A game where admins change with the winds isn't worth it just to keep a couple people playing, imo. Glen, you're overstating your case here. Part of the reason the recall is so high is because it would need to be an extraordinary measure to do it. You realize that the Assembly wasn't able to remove a member of the CSS — who was involved in a coup — yet you're suggesting the same threshold would allow admins to "change with the wind." This is rather poor logic. Voters and users are thoughtful and not the huddled mass of unthinking excitement you're making them out to be. Finally, I don't appreciate the flippant attitude toward real concerns.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
I really don't believe I am, Tsu. How many people continue to say we violated the laws by keeping Kris' citizenship, no matter how false that is? If we had held a vote at the height of Hileville's coup, Kris and I would no longer be here, because the Cabinet spun a convincing conspiracy even if it was still filled with lies and mischaracterizations. But in addition to that, just the ability to hold a vote allows somebody to create a huge scandal, where truth and fiction don't really matter in the end. Contrast that to a trial where you have prove admin misconduct.
As for the flippant remark, I'm not being flippant. I genuinely don't believe it's my responsibility or yours or Kris' or whoever' to bend over backwards to keep everybody playing the game. That's not sustainable. If people leave because of a decision I make, that's fine with me. People stop playing games all the time, it's nothing new to me as a former developer of an online game. It becomes a problem if your decisions cause mass exodus. But that's not going to happen here, and if I'm being honest I think it'd be great if the people still accusing us of some kind of conspiracy *would* leave. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(05-01-2016, 10:17 AM)sandaoguo Wrote: I really don't believe I am, Tsu. How many people continue to say we violated the laws by keeping Kris' citizenship, no matter how false that is? If we had held a vote at the height of Hileville's coup, Kris and I would no longer be here, because the Cabinet spun a convincing conspiracy even if it was still filled with lies and mischaracterizations. But in addition to that, just the ability to hold a vote allows somebody to create a huge scandal, where truth and fiction don't really matter in the end. Contrast that to a trial where you have prove admin misconduct. It was a miscommunication, I think it's unfair to say it was a "conspiracy theory." I also generally believe we can sort out the truth in public. Second, it is our responsibility to keep people playing. In fact, it's every member of the region's responsibility to keep people playing. Again, we *aren't* a society that births new players. We need to keep people involved. We can't (or at least shouldn't) send half of the population away and say we're better without them. We're not. If I'm being completely honest, I think the region would be better off if the people who are divisive and continually wish people would leave, would leave. We can't make this a popularity contest and one where a small group is "more equal" than the rest.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
I suspect you'd be all alone in the region if people with disagreements or who are ( in your opinion) "divisive" just leave.
The bottom line is that bending over backwards is going to f*** the community up far more than just telling a couple naysayers to shut up and deal with it or leave. There will always be people clamoring for my head. Because even if you don't want it to be a popularity contest, it is. (And you're lucky you're the most popular.) I don't want to continually defend myself against pettiness parading as legitimate grievance. I don't want Belachaft or whoever to go, "Oh, hey. We can vote out admins now. We can finally get rid of Glen!" That will happen. It won't be because I'm a bad admin or corrupt. It will be because they don't like my politics. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(05-04-2016, 11:43 AM)sandaoguo Wrote: I suspect you'd be all alone in the region if people with disagreements or who are ( in your opinion) "divisive" just leave. I'll point out that maybe I'm popular because of my attitude, not in spite of it. And I don't take pains to tell divisive people to leave, but the fact that you're taking offensive to that shows just how hypocritical your argument really is.
-tsunamy
[forum admin]
Do you two ever get tired of arguing over who should or should not leave the region?
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System
How am I being hypocritical? I don't support allowing people to vote out admins, because I believe it's easily open to politicking. I would most likely be a victim of that, which is something I know that you know.
Making up conspiracies about TNI, Kris' citizenship, or B&N doesn't make certain players divisive. It makes them generally toxic. You can't equate the two. You can't ignore the fact that the people who would spearhead a vote for my head or Kris' are the same people who wanted to manipulate elections, ban us from the region, and support a coup because it would get rid of us. A couple people can generate hysteria and work it to their advantage. I don't think it's a good idea to give one more way to do that, especially when doing so would literally bring the existence of the forums into question. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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