Well shouldn't the same thing apply for Australian Aboriginals or Native Americans? They still complain about everything (sorry if everyone thinks I've suddenly gone racist, if you read my posts, I haven't)

That's what I have been actively saying all of my life. They were treated horribly, we get it. The English were opressed back in 1066, do you see them demanding anything from france? The past is history. Don't forget it, learn from it, but don't hate an entire people because of it.

But isn't this with the Aboriginals not so far away and aren't there still issues with racism?
I know not much about Australia, but I think, I remember some documentary, where this was shown.
If that would apply, I could understand, why they still complain.
Nevertheless, I didn't want to insult anyone and I would also agree with Ausstan, that one should learn and remember of the bad things, the ancestors have done.

Yes they are treated poorly. I understand that, I live here. (Not trying to say you are clueless or anything, but, hey, I live here, I read this stuff in the news everyday.) But, there are no police shootings like in america with the african-americans. The ones living in the city receive the exact same oppurtunities as the "whites". Those living in the country often have poorer living conditions, but 1. They choose to live out there, 2. They live in the god damn desert. No matter what colour you are, if you live in the middle of a desert continent, you won't get all of the perks of city life.

Does this sound ignorant to you? Well, I'm sorry, but I have this argument with almost everyone I know and it gets annoying when people of any colour tries to scum off hard-working people's taxes. I don't think I'm better because I live in the city, or because I'm white. I don't think I'm better at all. But they make a conscious choice to live out in the desert unemployed. If all of the money they get is from centrelink (government handouts), well, too bad. If I chose to live in the desert unemployed, people wouldn't care if I had no money.

As you can tell, I have fairly strong views on this topic.

What your response fails to take into account is unconscious or societal biases. For example, women in the UK have the same legal rights as men, for the most part, but this does not mean that they are treated equally. Society, consciously or unconsciously, still had a bias towards men and until people are able to understand and counteract them in themselves and the institutions they act within, it will remain the case. The same is true for minorities world-wide and I'd be very surprised if it wasn't also the case in Australia.

Until you've lived in someone else's shoes you cannot assume that their complaints are not legitimate.

Well are you Aboriginal? This goes both ways

I am Zadiner/Zak. Part of Assembly, some other stuff, Founder of some other region.
Hey, I have a bunch of issues. You don't need to care.
Emoji of the week:  :dodgy:

Reply

That's what I have been actively saying all of my life. They were treated horribly, we get it. The English were opressed back in 1066, do you see them demanding anything from france? The past is history. Don't forget it, learn from it, but don't hate an entire people because of it.

But isn't this with the Aboriginals not so far away and aren't there still issues with racism?
I know not much about Australia, but I think, I remember some documentary, where this was shown.
If that would apply, I could understand, why they still complain.
Nevertheless, I didn't want to insult anyone and I would also agree with Ausstan, that one should learn and remember of the bad things, the ancestors have done.

Yes they are treated poorly. I understand that, I live here. (Not trying to say you are clueless or anything, but, hey, I live here, I read this stuff in the news everyday.) But, there are no police shootings like in america with the african-americans. The ones living in the city receive the exact same oppurtunities as the "whites". Those living in the country often have poorer living conditions, but 1. They choose to live out there, 2. They live in the god damn desert. No matter what colour you are, if you live in the middle of a desert continent, you won't get all of the perks of city life.

Does this sound ignorant to you? Well, I'm sorry, but I have this argument with almost everyone I know and it gets annoying when people of any colour tries to scum off hard-working people's taxes. I don't think I'm better because I live in the city, or because I'm white. I don't think I'm better at all. But they make a conscious choice to live out in the desert unemployed. If all of the money they get is from centrelink (government handouts), well, too bad. If I chose to live in the desert unemployed, people wouldn't care if I had no money.

As you can tell, I have fairly strong views on this topic.

What your response fails to take into account is unconscious or societal biases. For example, women in the UK have the same legal rights as men, for the most part, but this does not mean that they are treated equally. Society, consciously or unconsciously, still had a bias towards men and until people are able to understand and counteract them in themselves and the institutions they act within, it will remain the case. The same is true for minorities world-wide and I'd be very surprised if it wasn't also the case in Australia.

Until you've lived in someone else's shoes you cannot assume that their complaints are not legitimate.

Well are you Aboriginal? This goes both ways

Not in the way you seem to be suggesting, it doesn't. I'm defending their right to protest or not as they see fit. I don't have to be Aboriginal to argue in defense of their rights. I would have to be one to fully understand their suffering and I'm not, so I don't, and thus I not going to rush to judge that they must be complaining about nothing, especially when I know how often such arguments are fallacious.

In not saying that 'whining' about nothing never happens - both sides of most debates tend to have their extremes afterall - but it certainly happens less often than those who argue against civil rights and equality activists (and like to complain about SJWs, as if we would be insulted at being accused of fighting for Social Justice) claim.

Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond!

Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

(This post was last modified: 02-07-2017, 04:54 AM by Seraph.)

Reply

Betsy DeVos has just been confirmed to be the Secretary of Education by a vote of 51–50. 50 Republican Senators and one Mike Pence just made the next generation of Americans a bunch of illiterates.

4× Cabinet minister /// 1× OWL director /// CRS member /// SPSF

My History

(This post was last modified: 02-07-2017, 05:37 PM by Jay Coop.)

Reply

Well shouldn't the same thing apply for Australian Aboriginals or Native Americans? They still complain about everything (sorry if everyone thinks I've suddenly gone racist, if you read my posts, I haven't)

That's what I have been actively saying all of my life. They were treated horribly, we get it. The English were opressed back in 1066, do you see them demanding anything from france? The past is history. Don't forget it, learn from it, but don't hate an entire people because of it.

But isn't this with the Aboriginals not so far away and aren't there still issues with racism?
I know not much about Australia, but I think, I remember some documentary, where this was shown.
If that would apply, I could understand, why they still complain.
Nevertheless, I didn't want to insult anyone and I would also agree with Ausstan, that one should learn and remember of the bad things, the ancestors have done.

Yes they are treated poorly. I understand that, I live here. (Not trying to say you are clueless or anything, but, hey, I live here, I read this stuff in the news everyday.) But, there are no police shootings like in america with the african-americans. The ones living in the city receive the exact same oppurtunities as the "whites". Those living in the country often have poorer living conditions, but 1. They choose to live out there, 2. They live in the god damn desert. No matter what colour you are, if you live in the middle of a desert continent, you won't get all of the perks of city life.

Does this sound ignorant to you? Well, I'm sorry, but I have this argument with almost everyone I know and it gets annoying when people of any colour tries to scum off hard-working people's taxes. I don't think I'm better because I live in the city, or because I'm white. I don't think I'm better at all. But they make a conscious choice to live out in the desert unemployed. If all of the money they get is from centrelink (government handouts), well, too bad. If I chose to live in the desert unemployed, people wouldn't care if I had no money.

As you can tell, I have fairly strong views on this topic.

What your response fails to take into account is unconscious or societal biases. For example, women in the UK have the same legal rights as men, for the most part, but this does not mean that they are treated equally. Society, consciously or unconsciously, still had a bias towards men and until people are able to understand and counteract them in themselves and the institutions they act within, it will remain the case. The same is true for minorities world-wide and I'd be very surprised if it wasn't also the case in Australia.

Until you've lived in someone else's shoes you cannot assume that their complaints are not legitimate.

I understand what you are saying, but that isn't, unfortuantely, possible. I am white and I will stay white for the rest of my life. This isn't due to racism. It is because I have been born this way.

The aboriginal population can be discriminated against, and I do believe they are, which I think is awful, but I truly believe that they are not to the extent they claim. They are provided with the same oppurtunities as us. Even more sometimes.

If you look at uni courses, a course which would require anyone else to achieve an ATAR (uni entrance score, out of 99.95) of 99.00, an aboriginal person would only require 80. And yet, still, most don't work.

Many aboriginal people who work hard have become successful people. Some of the best Australian sportspeople have been aboriginal. Some popular singers or actors are aboriginal. I'm not saying this is a benchmark everyone should be expected to achieve, but if some can achieve this, why can't everyone? This goes for all races, so I understand if I sound racist, but it is them who are consistently "whining".

P.S. Many believe that Australia's national day, Australia Day, Jan 26th, should be renamed to Invasion day. This day was the day Australia was "colonised by the "First Fleet". The first governor of Australia got on extremely well with the native population, and aside from a few isolated incidences, they were treated fairly well compared to most other native populations such as American Indian (almost immediately slaughtered). The only case of institutionalised racism in Australia was the stolen generation, but many of the children taken were being discriminated against by both sides.

P.S.S. Some believe that Australia Day should be moved to May 8 so when you say it out loud, it sounds like Mate. As in G'day mate. Though this would be absolutely hilarious, I am a strong patriot, and would be absolutely against it. Australia is a serious country, not the Hall of Spam.

John Hills- President of Ausstan

(This post was last modified: 02-08-2017, 05:50 AM by Ausstan.)

Reply

Just like Morgan Freeman (I think?) said something along the lines equality has nothing to with race. If you put your mind to it you can get anywhere

I am Zadiner/Zak. Part of Assembly, some other stuff, Founder of some other region.
Hey, I have a bunch of issues. You don't need to care.
Emoji of the week:  :dodgy:

Reply

Betsy DeVos has just been confirmed to be the Secretary of Education by a vote of 51–50. 50 Republican Senators and one Mike Pence just made the next generation of Americans a bunch of illiterates.

I guess the silver lining is that now there will be more protection against grizzly bears in public schools (if those are still a thing in the future and aren't replaced by religious indoctrination).

@Ausstan: Not trying to be blunt or anything, but have you heard of the White Australia policy?. Let's not forget also that succesive Australian governments used the colonists' designation of Australia as a "Terra Nullius" ("land without inhabitants", which of course wasn't true at all) as justification for stealing aboriginal land for decades. Considering that indigenous communities still have less access to education and healthcare, I think their complaints have merit.

The "Stolen Generations" thing is unjustifiable. Thousands of children were forcibly taken from their parents and forced to give up their language and culture in order to force them to assimilate into white society. There is no silver lining there.

RandomGuy199
Representative of the Federal Republic of Karnetvor
Resident Venezuelan/Lampshade Bar & Grill Manager- The South Pacific
Soldier, South Pacific Special Forces

RP Information

Federal Republic of Karnetvor

 

[Image: psBSU3E.jpg]              [Image: jc1XkrR.png]

              National Flag                                                    Coat of Arms


Government:

• President: Yaleksandr Kerenskiy
  
• Vice President: Sergei Voroshilov
  
• Minister of Foreign Affairs: Josef Kyrzinski
  
• Speaker of the House of Representatives: Saria Alianovna
  

Founding Member, South Pacific Treaty Organization (SPTO)
Member, Southern Cooperation Organization (SCO)

 "You're talkin' to the Rolex wearin', diamond ring wearin', kiss stealin', wheelin' n' dealin', limousine ridin', jet flyin', son of a gun, and I'm having a hard time keeping these alligators down!"
 
"The Nature Boy" Ric Flair

(This post was last modified: 02-08-2017, 03:35 PM by RandomGuy199.)

Reply

Trump and Erdoğan emphasised the common things, Turkey and the US share and ensured to one another a good partnership and especially a good cooperation, when it comes to the "war against terrorism".

Signed
Gianluca IV
Roleplayer (active in TSP since 2016)
TSPedia-Author
Head Bartender of the Lampshade Bar & Grill


Information about my roleplay
Pacifica GI-Land, Snolland (Hazelbrust), Guardian of the World Forum, IUFA-FWC/WFWC- and Pacivision Supervisor • 
Aurora Markatt (Maura)

Reply

Trump and Erdoğan emphasised the common things, Turkey and the US share and ensured to one another a good partnership and especially a good cooperation, when it comes to the "war against terrorism".

I hate when my country does business with tyrants. Erdoğan, much like his predecessors, are terrible. They still have yet to recognize the Armenian Genocide and their constant oppression of the Kurdish people. The latter also applies to Iran, Iraq, and Syria. Us westerners screwed the pooch in 1916 with the Sykes–Picot Agreement. We wouldn't have a disaster in the Middle East if we didn't go hunting for oil in the first place. I think that, if we were serious about fixing the Middle East, we would sit down at the table and renegotiate the boundaries of the Middle East. The borders that exist today are colonial holdouts from the past. They yell western imperialism. Well, if they're serious, let's decolonize the Middle East once and for all. We renegotiate the existing national boundaries and give independence to the Kurds, Assyrians, etc. We form a coalition to wipe out AQ and ISIS, and everyone can go home and live as equals.

4× Cabinet minister /// 1× OWL director /// CRS member /// SPSF

My History

Reply

I wish everything was so easy. With Israel not giving a shit about the Palestinians and being perfectly fine with subjecting them to eternal occupation, the perpetual hate between Saudi Arabia and Iran (and Sunnis and Shia in general), and the fact that most of those countries are ruled by petty tyrants who don't want to give up power, I don't see that happening any time soon.

RandomGuy199
Representative of the Federal Republic of Karnetvor
Resident Venezuelan/Lampshade Bar & Grill Manager- The South Pacific
Soldier, South Pacific Special Forces

RP Information

Federal Republic of Karnetvor

 

[Image: psBSU3E.jpg]              [Image: jc1XkrR.png]

              National Flag                                                    Coat of Arms


Government:

• President: Yaleksandr Kerenskiy
  
• Vice President: Sergei Voroshilov
  
• Minister of Foreign Affairs: Josef Kyrzinski
  
• Speaker of the House of Representatives: Saria Alianovna
  

Founding Member, South Pacific Treaty Organization (SPTO)
Member, Southern Cooperation Organization (SCO)

 "You're talkin' to the Rolex wearin', diamond ring wearin', kiss stealin', wheelin' n' dealin', limousine ridin', jet flyin', son of a gun, and I'm having a hard time keeping these alligators down!"
 
"The Nature Boy" Ric Flair

Reply

I wish everything was so easy. With Israel not giving a shit about the Palestinians and being perfectly fine with subjecting them to eternal occupation, the perpetual hate between Saudi Arabia and Iran (and Sunnis and Shia in general), and the fact that most of those countries are ruled by petty tyrants who don't want to give up power, I don't see that happening any time soon.

I think that the right path for the Middle East is secular democracy. In a bunch of places around the world, Catholics and Protestants live amongst each other, not seeking to kill the other. If the CIA and MI6 didn't overthrow Mohammad Mosaddegh (a grave error), Iran would probably have been a secular democracy. Maybe, people wouldn't be on the streets of Tehran yelling, "Death to America! Death to Israel!" Of course, that all did happen. Then, they pursued nuclear weapons. The last President of the United States to set foot in Iran was Jimmy Carter in 1978. It's obvious that Trump won't visit. We need leaders that are willing to put aside their differences, so we can reconcile our relationship. You know, the United States and the United Kingdom's relationship got off on the wrong foot and the latter burned down the White House, but we have formed a Special Relationship that has lasted since the First World War. Could the U.S. and Iran be the best of friends? Probably not. But we don't have to be enemies.

4× Cabinet minister /// 1× OWL director /// CRS member /// SPSF

My History

(This post was last modified: 02-09-2017, 03:05 AM by Jay Coop.)

Reply