I think people have raised very valid points regarding the figure of pilgrimages as opposed to tourism. That doesn't mean people oppose any resolution you might ever propose. It's just a matter of finding a genuine international issue that people could support.

@Hammerstar: genuine question here. What makes pilgrimages any different from regular tourism, as far as international responsibilities go. Let's say a crime is committed while on a pilgrimage? Shouldn't it be handled just the same as it would be handled in any other situation? What makes so special as to need a particular international regime?

(05-24-2016, 12:30 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote: I think people have raised very valid points regarding the figure of pilgrimages as opposed to tourism. That doesn't mean people oppose any resolution you might ever propose. It's just a matter of finding a genuine international issue that people could support.

Thing is my friend, I've posted four resolutions. Two are the same.

The Pendragon scholarship, faltered because no one cared
The Genesis Initiative, faltered for the same reason
The Pilgrimage thing, may falter because no one seems to provide constructive feedback on how the draft resolution should be amended.

Is this how you treat people in the organization? Downright criticize them without helping them find an amendment that everyone can agree on?

I think Pendragon has merits. We just never got around to drafting it in proper resolution format, with all the necessary details (committee composition, how universities would join, funding, etc.). I won't comment on Genesis because I'm not familiar with how the discussion want.

The problem with Pilgrimage is that there is little room for compromise here. Those criticising it just don't consider it any different from regular tourism, so in that sense, a broader resolution on the responsibilities of hosts states towards tourists might gain more acceptance. Nobody had proposed an amendment because they don't agree with the fundamental topic of pilgrimages as something in need of a resolution.

I really would encourage you to keep trying. You obviously have skill with cultural roleplaying, and that is something we sorely need. If you keep a positive outlook, I'm sure you'll manage to pass a resolution soon enough.

(05-24-2016, 12:38 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote: I think Pendragon has merits. We just never got around to drafting it in proper resolution format, with all the necessary details (committee composition, how universities would join, funding, etc.). I won't comment on Genesis because I'm not familiar with how the discussion want.

The problem with Pilgrimage is that there is little room for compromise here. Those criticising it just don't consider it any different from regular tourism, so in that sense, a broader resolution on the responsibilities of hosts states towards tourists might gain more acceptance. Nobody had proposed an amendment because they don't agree with the fundamental topic of pilgrimages as something in need of a resolution.

I really would encourage you to keep trying. You obviously have skill with cultural roleplaying, and that is something we sorely need. If you keep a positive outlook, I'm sure you'll manage to pass a resolution soon enough.

Let's look at more evidence:

Awe's Immigration Framework never made vote
Resentines International Arms Reduction & Non-Proliferation Treaty was shot down and not cared
Old Qvait's Environmental Reform? Not cared

You see Kris, I've been in this region for quite some time and I've seen that not a lot of people seem to care about building their culture or discuss about anything else. Take Genesis, the submission of the resolution was made but it was downright ignored after a long discussion and even a cooperation with the UF.

No one seemed to care about Pendragon my friend, no one wanted to make the resolution and even though I made it the best I could, no one cared. Really.

As for the pilgrimage thing, it is already expected. Most of the nation is secular and its users are mostly atheists anyway. Not a lot of room for religion here.

You know what. That's it, I'm tired of playing cultural diplomacy, there's just not a lot of room to grow here. Maybe I should just leave to a better forum? That may seem like a better idea, I'm planning to leave after an event after Basil Day in which I shall orchestra.

(05-24-2016, 12:32 AM)Hammerstar Wrote: Thing is my friend, I've posted four resolutions. Two are the same.

The Pendragon scholarship, faltered because no one cared
The Genesis Initiative, faltered for the same reason
The Pilgrimage thing, may falter because no one seems to provide constructive feedback on how the draft resolution should be amended.

Is this how you treat people in the organization? Downright criticize them without helping them find an amendment that everyone can agree on?

I provided input for both the scholarship and the Genesis Initiative. I can't see what else I could do.

While not an amendment, I suggested you form an NGO. There are several other ways to help those on pilgrimages.

(05-24-2016, 12:44 AM)Hammerstar Wrote: As for the pilgrimage thing, it is already expected. Most of the nation is secular and its users are mostly atheists anyway. Not a lot of room for religion here.

You know what. That's it, I'm tired of playing cultural diplomacy, there's just not a lot of room to grow here. Maybe I should just leave to a better forum? That may seem like a better idea, I'm planning to leave after an event after Basil Day in which I shall orchestra.

There's plenty of room for religion. The thing is that many of our nations are modelled after modern western nations, where state and religion is clearly separated, hence you will have little success in religious matters when dealing with the state. It's, in most cases, not their business.

I understand there are special challenges and needs connected to pilgrimage, but many other groups of people travelling abroad also face challenges, like adventurers going on a trip to the the glaciers of the Polar Continent, or cliff diving into dangerous caves etc, which they all do at their own risk. The local authorities will do anything they can to help them should they be in distress, like they would for a pilgrim suffering from dehydration after walking the whole day without water. An NGO, or some other kind of organisation consisting of religious communities that have pilgrimages could of course help the local authorities.

(05-24-2016, 04:22 AM)Qwert Wrote: I provided input for both the scholarship and the Genesis Initiative. I can't see what else I could do.

And where are you now? When the proposal is resubmitted.

Can you drop the snarky tone? It's getting really irritating now.

How can I drop this tone if nothing I've been saying is heeded?

People are legitimately disagreeing with your pilgrimage resolution. You may not agree with them, but that doesn't mean they aren't listening. Disagreement will happen. Not everyone will see the world the way you do.

You act like their disagreement is a personal slight, but it's really just their point of view.

On the other hand, I don't know why nobody has responded to your other resolutions, and I completely understand your frustrations, but the way you are complaining about it is not going to win you any allies.

Have you tried politely PMing some likely allies and asking them to respond? Or, if you really think people aren't interested in this kind of cultural/political role-play, then ask them why not and perhaps you can reach some agreement that allows everyone to enjoy it as much as you do.

I apologise if any of that comes across as overly negative (it is difficult to control how another person perceives your tone), but I hope you can come around to some more diplomatic position with your fellow RPers.