| [Debate] Splitting RA Round 2 |
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Well, with various avenues of development from Omega's most recent proposal having become dead ends, I'm happy to motion it to a vote alongside Jay's proposal.
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Hold on, we need an enabling resolution or something for mine so it doesn’t take effect immediately. Also are we sure we are all good with all the language as is?
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Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021 (05-10-2020, 07:13 AM)Ski Slopes of Agalaesia Wrote: If we do want to split Culture, media and integration, why don't we make them fully fledged ministries? I'd prefer the Qwert/Omega proposal, but if this is what gets people to agree, I'm perfectly fine with it. (05-10-2020, 06:25 AM)Amerion Wrote: Perhaps we can proceed with this version and see how it goes. It won't be catastrophic to the region if it turns out to be, as ProfessorHenn warns, a rubber stamp. We will be able to review this in the future and if this is the case, we can revise the law as we did with the Legislator Committee. Yes, I think it's time to proceed. Talking to some members of MoRA leadership... there isn't really much more that can be done to include them at this point, it seems, either because they've decided to check out of the debate and resign themselves to whatever happens (it has gone on far too long) or because at this point things are so messy that no one is really sure what they're willing to accept substance-wise. I don't think what the end result is, at this point, is going to matter very much when it comes to establishing a consensus. That bridge has already been broken. I'd like to motion Omega's most recent proposal to vote as soon as he's produced a final version with some of the changes Henn mentioned and some enabling legislation. That should also give enough time for Agalaesia or someone else to write up a three-ministry culture, integration, and media version if they want to. ![[Image: AfI6yZX.png]](https://i.imgur.com/AfI6yZX.png){kind=small} ~ Aumeltopia ~
I motion to vote JayCoop's proposal.
ProfessorHenn
Legislator
(05-10-2020, 02:35 PM)ProfessorHenn Wrote: I motion to vote JayCoop's proposal. See here. Furthermore, I think it's reasonable that the competing bill clause is used with Omega's proposal and possibly others that arise. And as an entirely different suggestion: Maybe we start to retire this thread and start with a new thread, with the OP having the various suggestions (one of which is to not split at all), where we can then debate the merits of each of those without the baggage of this thread, both just in terms of the sheer size of it, but also in terms of the mental aspect. Many people on both sides of this issue are frustrated for one reason or another, most of those frustrations have reasonable cause, and too many of them have simply not been cogently expressed here for a number of reasons. ![[Image: XXPV74Y.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/XXPV74Y.png?1)
I will say something about the latest proposal:
One of the biggest things stopping the MoRA from basically being dead is the fact that each part of the ministry can easily ask help from other areas. There are plenty of people who have multiple small jobs in the ministry - or do one thing and help/give feedback/contribute a little in the others - or some other combination. And frankly, that is a great thing to have. It helps smaller, more specialised parts of the ministry that don't get as much attention to get contributions from the wider MoRA community, and it helps those who do have a specialised job in a specialised part of the ministry to show their work to the others working in the ministry. While splitting the ministry in two may help make the ministers job easier, splitting the ministry into 4 (roleplay, education, media and graphics) would fragment the ministry to the point where we have the worst proposal of all - exactly where we started (with a single ministry with 3 to 4 semi-independent sections) without a leader or enough people to help support the activity in each one. Remember, these "departments" are tiny and inactive. Graphics design literally has one staff member (Somy who also works in education) plus some others who occasionally pitch in with the simpler works. Many of the other bits and pieces have little activity, too (Though somy is pretty active and also great at his job) Two ministries - Regional Affairs and Educational Affairs - would mean two leaders which are more accountable while not fragmenting the ministry too much. It would also have the benefit of giving each ministry one (or two) of the more active parts of the MoRA, letting the other part "borrow" some of the expertise. PS: The logical continuation of this from this would be to not have the split at all, but rather streamline the current system. I will point out that the current system (which has a minister, deputy ministers and then senior fellows) was actually simpler before the original discussion we had on this. Back then, it was just a minister, the advisory council (which is still here), and the senior fellows. The deputy ministers ostensibly a direct response to the original discussion we had on this. PPS: I know people can't see the parts of the ministry they don't work in. I think that system should go, actually, and everything should be open to all the fellows. When I say "visible to other people" I mean visible to mostly the management staff that overlook the departments, and the people who do have the role simply to see what's going on. And that wouldn't be there in the proposed system. And allowing visitors to look at the work doesn't work nearly as well, as they by their very nature are visitors: they're not coming here on a regular basis, they're not working in the office next door, they're just coming to see what's here and probably won't talk much. ![[Image: st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u5.jpg]](https://ih1.redbubble.net/image.703640759.6162/st,small,507x507-pad,600x600,f8f8f8.u5.jpg) (05-10-2020, 03:09 PM)Roavin Wrote: Maybe we start to retire this thread and start with a new thread, with the OP having the various suggestions (one of which is to not split at all), where we can then debate the merits of each of those without the baggage of this thread, both just in terms of the sheer size of it, but also in terms of the mental aspect. I would be largely in favor of this course of action if someone else were to start it. I will have the draft of where I am with my proposal here in a few moments. EDIT: Here is my text at this stage: Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been What's Next? CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021 (05-10-2020, 03:41 PM)Omega Wrote: Legilsation You should get Grammarly or something similar  Quote:And as an entirely different suggestion: Maybe we start to retire this thread and start with a new thread, with the OP having the various suggestions (one of which is to not split at all), where we can then debate the merits of each of those without the baggage of this thread, both just in terms of the sheer size of it, but also in terms of the mental aspect. Many people on both sides of this issue are frustrated for one reason or another, most of those frustrations have reasonable cause, and too many of them have simply not been cogently expressed here for a number of reasons. Good idea. Especially the idea to not split at all and find an alternative solution within the current structure - I still think it's a valid idea that has been shunned not because of points against it but more because the mentality that has grown around this discussion automatically shuns any mention of not splitting.
I will also suggest maybe waiting for a week or 2 before starting the new thread, so people have a chance to have a bit of a break without constantly worrying what's going to happen to the MoRA. And also so we can work on the other proposals.
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