(04-15-2015, 12:50 PM)Kris Kringle Wrote: The State of Emergency was declared because Escade (and later Belschaft) received a telegram accusing her of being Neenee. An IP check then resulted in some inconsistencies, which is why Belschaft called for a CSS vote on the SoE. That was all explained extensively during and after the event.

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Bono, it wasn't a just a feasible excuse. While declaring a full blown State of Emergency was most definitely not the answer, it does prove the extent to which Neenee (and overall The Empire) was viewed as a threat to the region.

Thanks for the explanation.

(04-15-2015, 12:52 PM)Brutland and Norden Wrote:

(04-15-2015, 12:08 PM)Escade Wrote: It would be helpful to know in what tangible ways Empire helped TSP during the coup as its something most people don't know about and that would be critical in understanding the relationship between Empire and TSP and how we should move forward.

"The Empire" as a group did not help TSP, but some of its "members" did, just as The West Pacific as a region did not help TSP, yet some of its members like Punk Daddy did. But from I can remember, Biyah helped in the Southern Allied Command, particularly in communications issues and publicity/counter-propaganda. IIRC they were there because Osiris was our ally and they're part of Osiris. I'm not sure about the others as I don't know which archive to dig atm.

I'd rather treat them individually instead of as a group.

Would that put "those particular members" into some category of isolated event, pushing it to treat them different from the group in question?

(04-15-2015, 12:47 PM)Bonaugure Wrote:

(04-15-2015, 12:33 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: "The Empire" didn't help during Milograd's coup. Biyah and Dali were involved in the "Southern Allied Command." Meanwhile, in 2013, a State of Emergency was declared over the most minor suspicions of Escade actually being Neenee.

Somewhere along the line in these past few weeks and months, the leadership of this region went from knowing what kind threat The Empire is, to not having any kind of coherent thought about it at all. What Belschaft did to Escade was inappropriate, don't get me wrong. But it shows just how much of a threat The Empire (particularly Neenee) has been considered to be over the years.

To clarify, would you suggest separating Biyah and Dali (maybe putting them in observation) from Neenee and the rest of The Empire? And maybe setting up a deeper investigation about the risk she may have implied to the point of being a feasible excuse for Belschaft to do what he did to Escade?

No, I wouldn't separate any of them from each other. Biyah was the main instigator of Osiris' problems. (I was actually a citizen in Osiris as the time of The Empire's coup there.) Dali shares the same type of paternalistic views, thinking that it's up to him and them to determine if a GCR is living up to their standards of activity, and if not, that the region deserves to be coup'd. This is the same kind of overbearing, condescending, and self-serving ideas that they used to excuse their coup of Osiris: http://s13.zetaboards.com/Osiris_NS/topic/7001215/1/

I think it foolish to ignore the history of these players. Where are we right now? We've had a rough foreign affairs, activity issues, and military issues. A group of players known for believing that it's their right to coup regions to "cure" them of their issues shows up, starts being active on IRC, starts building a network of friends here. Why are we not viewing this as suspicious? They've coup'd nearly every GCR they've ever stepped foot in. For some reason, TEP players still trust them. But that doesn't mean they're harmless, that they don't believe in their right to coup, and that we should trust them.

@Escade: Glen has already explained that countless times, and people still don't believe it. I don't see why people keep asking if they just won't believe the answer they get.

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For reference.

(04-15-2015, 12:57 PM)Escade Wrote: Kris, I think what Bon is stating is that if the risk of me being Neenee was great enough for the CSS to declare a state of emergency then what reasoning was behind that? What about Neenee specifically caused them to take such a drastic action?

I know about the telegram itself and shared it with you because it was written by an obvious puppet and written like a Scooby Doo mystery threat. You were the head of CSS at the time, I believe, and also took it as one of the strange TGs that delegates get until Belschaft got involved.

I'm still unclear about what about Neenee at the time, especially if she were to be legally elected as a delegate in TSP, caused a state of emergency to be declared. What about her raised the alarm?

Brutland & Norden, I actually agree which I state elsewhere that the prohibited groups usage can have repercussions and consequences that aren't entirely clear which is why it should be used with care.

She couldn't translate me better. That was indeed the point of my question.

(04-15-2015, 01:02 PM)Bonaugure Wrote:

(04-15-2015, 12:57 PM)Escade Wrote: Kris, I think what Bon is stating is that if the risk of me being Neenee was great enough for the CSS to declare a state of emergency then what reasoning was behind that? What about Neenee specifically caused them to take such a drastic action?

I know about the telegram itself and shared it with you because it was written by an obvious puppet and written like a Scooby Doo mystery threat. You were the head of CSS at the time, I believe, and also took it as one of the strange TGs that delegates get until Belschaft got involved.

I'm still unclear about what about Neenee at the time, especially if she were to be legally elected as a delegate in TSP, caused a state of emergency to be declared. What about her raised the alarm?

Brutland & Norden, I actually agree which I state elsewhere that the prohibited groups usage can have repercussions and consequences that aren't entirely clear which is why it should be used with care.

She couldn't translate me better. That was indeed the point of my question.

Just read the many posts that Glen has made about Empire. It has already been explained, so I'm not sure why this is still being questioned.

I agree with GR, almost all of them listed are chronic trouble makers. They've been acting like this for a decade, and have yet to install one of their BS governments in TSP.

I'm sure they are all nice enough, but this is an important conversation to have, because their history is constantly being involved in trouble.

I would like to see if can move forward with this. Are there more questions that we can answer?

All my questions have been answered.

In a slight defense of "The Empire," I'd like to note the activity raised in our region simply by the mention of their name.

That said, I think we should motion this to a vote.

Err, not all "activity" is good. I'm sure we wouldn't be praising the activity generated by a coup, which is what they use as an excuse every time.

I second that motion.