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**Belschaft** · 02-19-2015, 02:42 AM

Seeing as how I have now been royally fucked over, despite not contesting the recall votes against me last year to try and end the matter as quickly as possible and prevent any risk of damage to someone else's reputation...

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the silent partner and intended Delegate candidate in the "OBT cabal", Tsunamy;

Quote:Session Start: Thu Jul 24 20:16:26 2014
Session Ident: tsu
01[20:16] <Bel> So, are you as annoyed at how fucked up TSP has become as I am?
[20:17] <tsu> LOL.
[20:17] <tsu> Yes.
[20:17] <tsu> If you saw the stuff that's going on BCD
01[20:17] <Bel> I can only fucking imagine
01[20:17] <Bel> What are you prepared to do about it?
[20:18] <tsu> Right now I think I'm going to sit back.
[20:18] <tsu> And bitch a while.
[20:18] <tsu> And join the Progressive Party.
[20:18] <tsu> And ... see wtf happens.
[20:18] <tsu> How about you?
01[20:19] <Bel> Me and Todd are going to strike back
[20:19] <tsu> ... how?
01[20:19] <Bel> We're putting together something called "Operation Toaster"
[20:19] <tsu> Like Brave little toaster?
[20:19] <tsu>
01[20:20] <Bel> Yup
01[20:20] <Bel> Todd's name
[20:20] <tsu> Sorry -- I came up with that name soooo long ago.
01[20:20] <Bel> I meant for the op
[20:20] <tsu> LOL. gotcha.
[20:20] <tsu> Anyhow.
[20:20] <tsu> What does operation toaster entail?
[20:20] <tsu> And/or do I want to know?
01[20:20] <Bel> You want to know, but you don't want to be involved
[20:21] <tsu> Exactly. Plausible deniability.
01[20:21] <Bel> The general plan is to bring reliable people into TSP over the next four months, ready for the next general election
[20:21] <tsu> Hm. Fair.
01[20:22] <Bel> Also 100% legal
[20:22] <tsu> Yessir.
[20:22] <tsu> We need more activity anyhow
01[20:22] <Bel> Would you be willing to run for Delegate next time round?
[20:22] <tsu> Um ... maybe.
[20:23] <tsu> I'm not going to lie in that I've given though to it.
01[20:23] <Bel> You'll have a very strong chance of winning, much stronger than me
01[20:23] <Bel> That reduces the number of people we need to bring in
01[20:23] <Bel> We need to take the Delegacy/VD and two other Cabinet slots
[20:23] <tsu> Well ... I'll think about it.
06[20:23] * Bel nods
[20:23] <tsu> Honestly
[20:24] <tsu> I have somewhat loyalty to Kris.
01[20:24] <Bel> I like Kris, and in other circumstances I would be behind him
[20:24] <tsu> I'm quite annoyed with GR and Uni.
01[20:24] <Bel> But he's completely in hock to Uni and Glen
01[20:24] <Bel> And you know what they want, and he's giving them it
[20:24] <tsu> Yeah ... they did a really good job of pulling in him and Escade.
01[20:25] <Bel> Correct. And then Hile went fucking insane and bleh
[20:25] <tsu> Yeah ...
[20:25] <tsu> Idk. I mean -- I fully plan to argue everything from here on out.
[20:25] <tsu> Especially on a FA front.
01[20:26] <Bel> Arguing gets us fucking nothing. We need to win the next general election.
[20:26] <tsu> Well ... not if we can stop everything.
01[20:26] <Bel> It's the last chance we have to save the Coalition, or we'll all be living in a FRA member region
[20:26] <tsu> Yeah ...
01[20:26] <Bel> We need to hold the Delegacy. It's that fucking simple.
[20:26] <tsu> We'll save that.
01[20:27] <Bel> A cabinet majority gives us the executive machinery to do what we need to do
01[20:27] <Bel> And by that I mean kick Glen and Uni the fuck out of TSP, fyi
[20:27] <tsu> lol.
[20:28] <tsu> Yeah ... the resurgence of Uni surprised me actually.
[20:28] <tsu> I was he was like ... out.
01[20:28] <Bel> Down but not out
[20:29] <tsu> Apparently.
[20:29] <tsu> Idk. I don't think he's going to be able to handle the CoA
[20:29] <tsu> he's going to lose it.
01[20:29] <Bel> Possibly
[20:29] <tsu> I mean .. it'll be a clusterfuck.
[20:29] <tsu> HE
[20:29] <tsu> *but
01[20:29] <Bel> We should start gaining increased voting strength soon
01[20:30] <Bel> My concern is that we don't have the Delegacy, tbh
[20:30] <tsu> I saw Cormac
01[20:30] <Bel> Under the new influence mechanics then a fight would be a hell of a lot more messy
01[20:30] <Bel> People we're meant to see Cormac
[20:30] <tsu> gotcha.
01[20:30] <Bel> Uni and Glen will expect some reaction
[20:30] <tsu> Well
[20:31] <tsu> Idk. I mean -- despite everything -- Kris follows the rule of law.
[20:31] <tsu> To a fault.
01[20:31] <Bel> Cormac will be froth. Todd will provide the real material
[20:31] <tsu> Look at you thinking this all through
01[20:32] <Bel> Heh
01[20:32] <Bel> What kind of reaction would you be willing to go along with if we pull this off?
[20:33] <tsu> What do you mean by reaction?
01[20:33] <Bel> I mean, what would you approve of
01[20:33] <Bel> In terms of action should we get the 4/6 on the cabinet we need including D/VD
[20:33] <tsu> Well I mean ... what exactly do you think needs to be done?
[20:34] <tsu> Or ... what exactly do you have in mind
01[20:34] <Bel> Uni and Glen need to go. There is a Cabinet mechanism to strip citizenship
01[20:34] <Bel> I would also want to remove them from the forums as well
[20:34] <tsu> Ehhh ... that feels ... strong.
01[20:34] <Bel> Beyond those two... I don't see any need to go further
01[20:34] <Bel> If we don't cut out the cancer it will return
[20:35] <tsu> Such strong statements
01[20:35] <Bel> If we're going to do this then we might as well do it properly. Leaving Glen and Uni in TSP will simply defer trouble a few more months
[20:36] <tsu> I mean ... you know I'm all about a middle ground. And, I'm not super sure of how to legally swing that.
01[20:37] <Bel> It would be legal. The mechanisms exist for the citizenship removal.
[20:38] <tsu> But under security threats ... no?
01[20:38] <Bel> Define security threat. I would argue that we face an existential threat to our regions culture, identity, history and form of government
01[20:38] <Bel> Does that constitute security?
01[20:40] <Bel> An alternative would be to use Article 9
[20:40] <tsu> I certainly appreciate that argument.
01[20:41] <Bel> There's no general rush in regards to this. Take your time and decide what you are comfortable with, and we can talk it over.
[20:41] <tsu> Will do.
[20:42] <tsu> I'll keep you posted.
[20:42] <tsu> I'm mulling a run for Uni's justice seat. You have any thoughts there?
01[20:44] <Bel> Do it
01[20:44] <Bel> We're strong in the Judicary and CSS
01[20:44] <Bel> We want to build on that strength
[20:44] <tsu> Word.
01[20:45] <Bel> The general principle is that the first side to act illegally will probably lose
[20:45] <tsu> Hmmm ... yeah.
01[20:45] <Bel> The less political CSS members like B&N and Aram will go with the side with the law on their side
01[20:45] <Bel> As will most of the interegional community
[20:46] <tsu> True. Well ... technically ... I don't know if B&N is part of the CSS atm.
01[20:46] <Bel> Still masked as such I think
01[20:46] <Bel> You have root on the forums, all we lack is the Delegacy
[20:46] <tsu> Probably.
01[20:46] <Bel> Get that and we could do this illegally if we *had* to
[20:46] <tsu> True.
01[20:46] <Bel> Get the cabinet majority and we can do it legally
01[20:47] <Bel> I would prefer legal, but if we have no choice I would reluctantly do it illegally tbh
01[20:47] <Bel> Ultimately, it all comes down to one vote in four months time
[20:47] <tsu> Well -- we'll see.
[20:47] <tsu> Lets hold faith.
[20:48] <tsu> Maybe we're not being as bumrushed as we fear
[20:48] <tsu> and/or as it seems
01[20:48] <Bel> I have faith in our ability to organize, and the reliability of Todd and TEP
01[20:48] <Bel> We're being bumrushed
[20:48] <tsu> :/
Session Close: Thu Jul 24 22:55:26 2014

Now, I'm given to understand that our lovely Delegate has spent a certain amount of time spinning this before the cabinet and CSS in the expectation that I would release logs when he fucked me over, but what the hell. There you go folks, Tsunamy, guilty as me or Todd. If my participation in a legal, if shady, political cabal back in July and August 2014 makes me a security risk then so is he.

For the record, and before anyone questions it, Tsu's election was legitimate. Toaster was abandoned months before the election, and not a single vote was imported for Tsu - though all Toaster conspirators did of course vote for him.

Consider this an appeal, and declaration of massive hypocrisy.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015, 02:45 AM by Gordon Freeman.)

~~Unibot~~ · 02-19-2015, 02:48 AM

These logs certainly are not flattering for you, Belschaft.

Quote:01[20:34] <Bel> Uni and Glen need to go. There is a Cabinet mechanism to strip citizenship
01[20:34] <Bel> I would also want to remove them from the forums as well
[20:34] <tsu> Ehhh ... that feels ... strong.
01[20:34] <Bel> Beyond those two... I don't see any need to go further
01[20:34] <Bel> If we don't cut out the cancer it will return

If anything I feel only more strongly convinced that the Cabinet made the right decision. Tsu had informed us prior about this conversation - he was never aware to the full extent to which you intended to go with Brave Little Toaster and I believe him. The fact you've tried to use it as blackmail against him only engenders even less sympathy from me.

(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015, 02:48 AM by Sandwich Territories.)

***Tsunamy*** · 02-19-2015, 02:49 AM

Bel -- both the Cabinet and the CSS know about this. And I posted a thread in the Private Halls of the Assembly. You know, where citizens can access.

It's sad when you try to see the good and someone and all he wants to do is pitch a fit. Please let me know if you would like we to post the threads where you attempt to intimidate me, like you have so many others in the region.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

**Belschaft** · 02-19-2015, 02:51 AM

Yes, you informed the Cabinet and CSS when Toaster was active all the way back in July 2014...... wait.....

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

PREVIOUS ROLES

***Tsunamy*** · 02-19-2015, 02:57 AM

(02-19-2015, 02:51 AM)Belschaft Wrote: Yes, you informed the Cabinet and CSS when Toaster was active all the way back in July 2014...... wait.....

I told Kris from the moment this broke. I didn't feel the need to tell the CSS until you decided to slander an institution.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

***Kris Kringle*** · 02-19-2015, 03:03 AM

I want to state, for the record, that I did speak with tsu the moment OBT was revealed, and he informed me that he had spoken with Belschaft, but was not aware of the full extent of the conspiracy. I found his explanation credible and reasonable, based on his long history of dedicated involvement in TSP.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
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(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015, 03:04 AM by sandaoguo.)

Hileville · 02-19-2015, 11:46 AM

I have no choice but to support this appeal. This was the wrong decision made at the wrong time.

Ryccia · 02-19-2015, 12:09 PM

I... don't know who to believe. Was Tsu playing along, or was he really intrigued? I don't know what to think about this anymore...

Deputy Regional Minister of the Planning and Development Agency(March 8-May 19, 2014)

Local Council Member(April 24-August 11)

Court Justice of TSP(August 15-December 7)

Quotes

[Image: 9ehfkQV.png]

Apad · 02-19-2015, 12:18 PM

(02-19-2015, 12:09 PM)Ryccia Wrote: I... don't know who to believe. Was Tsu playing along, or was he really intrigued? I don't know what to think about this anymore...

I too dont know who to believe. I must say I am very very disappointed in all the members of the cabinet. How is Bels anymore of a security threat now then when it was discovered he was trying to rig our elections. If that isnt grounds for declaring him a security threat, then maybe we need to hear what the cabinets definition of a security threat is.

Apad
King of Haldilwe

(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015, 12:20 PM by Archerinia.)

***Kris Kringle*** · 02-19-2015, 12:26 PM

I wonder then when is the right time, Hileville. Because Belschaft has just posted logs where he admits to planning on using the very mechanism of Cabinet removal to do away with Unibot and Sandaoguo, explains his thoughts for Operation Brave Toaster and outright states that he would have no problem doing this illegally, should it be necessary.

Let me be clear, since it seems some people keep missing the point. Belschaft does not get to decide for himself who is or is not a threat to this region, and he certainly does not get to act upon those beliefs, and put our sovereignty and democracy at risk. If he believes his opponents are misguided, then he has an open legislature and the ballot, two legitimate options where he can make his case before the citizenry. Instead, he chose to act covertly, said he had no qualms about acting illegally, and even now insists that nothing wrong was done.

That is being a threat to the security of this region, and the Cabinet acted accordingly. We did not like doing this. In fact, up until minutes before posting the announcement, more than one member was having second thoughts, and wishing that Belschaft would show at least one sign of repentance. I know, because I was one of those people, and I have insisted to him multiple times that he should have been honest about his desire to do good in the region. I asked him to acknowledge his wrongs, and try to prove that he had genuinely changed. We only took this decision because we saw that he was not changing, and had a legitimate fear that he might try to take matters into his own hands, at some point in the future.

When Operation Brave Toaster was first revealed, I was asked to consider a citizenship removal, and in the end we agreed to give Belschaft the benefit of the doubt. Personally I wanted him to leave on his own accord after being recalled, but I was fine with seeing him return and work his way back into regional life, provided that his intentions were honest. But he returned with a refusal to admit to any wrongdoing, and insisting that his actions were legitimate. If he did this once, and showed no repentance whatsoever, or even an understanding of why people see his actions as reprehensible in the first place, then the Cabinet has a responsibility to ensure that such future instances do not occur.

Removing Belschaft's citizenship is not an attempt to avoid the judiciary, it is an executive decision, made on legitimate security grounds, and I urge the Assembly to uphold it.

Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator.
I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum.

Legal Resources:
THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System

(This post was last modified: 02-19-2015, 12:27 PM by sandaoguo.)