| LegComm: Accepted Election Act amendment |
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The difference I see here is the Administrators check and certify citizenship while the EC is only counting votes against a list or information admins provide?
An EC does not determine citizenship that causes too many issues such as then does the EC need to be a citizen of TSP?Do they conduct an independent citizenship check before elections? And going back to the thread regarding how ECs should be selected. Therefore, maybe what needs to be codified is the procedure for elections and the timeline by which Admins should check citizenship and then share an official list with the EC and maybe the public. I know that in the past we in TSP have been lax about taking citizenship away. I remember trying to increase the activity requirement and several people vociferously stating that we should be lax about things like that. If someone can find and link that thread from the old forums, that would be great. Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
(03-25-2015, 12:32 AM)Tsunamy Wrote:(03-24-2015, 04:46 PM)Sandaoguo Wrote: @Aram: This could be merged with other ideas, but I don't necessarily think any further reform is necessary. If other people want to suggest ways to merge things, that's all good with me. My main goal is here to make it explicit that the EC has no admin authority and no authority over citizenship, and to put into law that an activity check must occur prior to the election. I think this is a key issue that needs to be sorted out. It is probably not clearly specified currently. It is the admins job to determine if citizenship applies, the question is of the EC just counts the votes from those tagged as Citizens, or if they can discount votes from those not meeting requirements.
The Administration determines citizenship. An EC can invalidate votes such as a double vote that was invalidated by the EC this election. But they cannot take away or determine citizenship. A Vice Delegate checks citizenship and sends the info to Admins who then certify it and remove maskings.
The Admin and EC should have worked in tandem to verify beforehand and the VD is supposed to update the citizenship lists on a regular basis. When I was VD I had to update the list regularly. I also sent regions who lapsed a TG and\or PM informing them that after a certain period they would lose citizenship. I sent many many such TGs. Since none of this precedent has been followed, it stands to bear that we cannot take away a vote because standard procedures were not follow by people due to RL or other issues. A citizen who didn't "lose citizenship" is still a citizen and has the right to vote until a VD check\reminder takes place and then after a certain period passes the VD re-checks and then sends the Admin a list who then certifies it and removes masking. The power to determine citizenship lies with the Admin and if it is not removed then it is valid. We do need legislation that requires that complete checks take place before elections to avoid this kind of situation in the future. Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
The individual in question was actually supposed to lose his/her citizenship on 11/18/14. So this sort of doesn't really 100% fix the issue here.
Also, according to this: Quote:1. Elections will be run by a member of the forum administration staff, acting as an election commissioner. Since an EC is appointed to more or less fulfill the role of an administrator (without actually masked as such), couldn't the EC be afforded the same duties of checking / removing citizenship (when applicable) as an administrator?
No, that does not make sense at all. A EC is not an Admin. Will they ask for rights to the board? An EC doesn't even have to be a citizen.
In that case let's ask the non running Administrator, Kris Kringle to take over and check the votes. If he is amenable then that will simplify things. The Vice Delegate is responsible for maintaining a list. The list is given to the Administrators who check it and then remove maskings. A citizen is a citizen as long as they are masked as such. Citizens are given 1-2 warnings to post before their citizenship is removed. I will look through the forums when I can and find the numerous TGs and PMs I sent out. The issue is not the citizen but rather who was VD from then until now and didn't maintain a list and therefore do their job as required. Arbitrarily deciding to now remove citizenship when the citizen in question could have and might have voted in every election since 11/2014 is highly circumspect. The individual has voted since then in the Assembly, does that invalidate the Assembly? Do we reset our clocks to 11/2014? In terms of precedent, citizens in TSP who were active at some point have been given leeway in this regard (for example in the case of B&N and Drugged Monkeys). Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest (03-25-2015, 01:50 AM)Escade Wrote: No, that does not make sense at all. A EC is not an Admin. Quote:11. Elections will be run by a member of the forum administration staff or their designee. A designated Election Commissioner may be appointed if all members of the administration staff will be candidates in the given election. Actually, in most cases an Admin fills the role of Election Commissioner, as prescribed by law.
Considering Kring did not run, and is an administrator, I'd be fine with him cross-checking the votes to be honest.
As far as when a citizen is and is not a citizen, I think it's clear there's a whole lot of gray area in that. I'd submit a legal Q on it, but really it's a tough call. Then again, everyone seems to have an opinion that would benefit the person they voted for in this election, including myself. Which makes me wonder what would happen had the tables been turned and the person who wasn't supposed to be a citizen voted for Wolf instead, rendering the vote as tied.
Yes, the problem is that everyone is involved has some political slant.
However, I am also responding based on how things happened during my Vice Delegacy when the list was updated and maintained regularly and if I was a week behind someone gave me flak for it. The opinions of people then on the activity requirements as well as checks in place were that I had to do my best to preserve citizenship and encourage nations to come back (I was inclined towards a higher posting and activity requirement). It seems odd to me that now the attempt is to prevent citizenship when so far the whole rhetoric of most people involved has been "we must encourage citizenship and protect it." I mean even the last few debates about citizenship denials have been about encouraging rather then discouraging citizenship. If you disagreed with me then that we needed to be more stringent and advocated for the lax policies that have led us to this issue now, don't change the goal posts because of this election. Escade ~ Positions Held in TSP ~ Delegate | Vice Delegate Minister of Regional Affairs, | Minister of Foreign Affairs | Minister of Military Affairs ~ The Sparkly One ~ My Pinterest
(03-25-2015, 01:42 AM)Todd McCloud Wrote: Since an EC is appointed to more or less fulfill the role of an administrator (without actually masked as such), couldn't the EC be afforded the same duties of checking / removing citizenship (when applicable) as an administrator? The "role of administrator" is different from the Election Commission. The duties of an admin are not the same as the duties of the EC. When the Administration Team appoints an EC, they are appointing somebody to take over solely the duties of the EC. An appointed EC never has admin permissions. |
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