Now to be truly controversial: we could drop the affairs bit and just have a Minister of Culture and a Minister of Integration and Media.

Ah jeez! Media should be with Culture!!!

I'm not sure it should - in fact I'm certain that, if there's a split, media and culture should be on opposite sides of it whether or not we take integration into account as they are the bulk of what the ministry's accomplished for the last four years and if you don't separate them, you're not really splitting anything at all - but regardless, I was naming them according to the divisions Omega had set out in his OP.

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Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

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It is clear that we can't just do nothing anymore, eventually, the ministry will split. We have had this discussion several times since the Great Council ended in 2016. We should stop kicking the can down the road and finally work something out. If we don't like the changes that we have made, we can always change them; the region isn't set in stone after changes are made.

Yes. But change is done because we have to, not because we talked about it one time 4 years ago.

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It is clear that we can't just do nothing anymore, eventually, the ministry will split. We have had this discussion several times since the Great Council ended in 2016. We should stop kicking the can down the road and finally work something out. If we don't like the changes that we have made, we can always change them; the region isn't set in stone after changes are made.

Yes. But change is done because we have to, not because we talked about it one time 4 years ago.

Just a small correction, We did discuss this last term and came to a vote which none of the various ways to split passed through the assembly. I do not think there had been any other times we were discussing splitting MoRA (aside from 1 time 4 years ago), but I could be wrong.

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Reply

It is clear that we can't just do nothing anymore, eventually, the ministry will split. We have had this discussion several times since the Great Council ended in 2016. We should stop kicking the can down the road and finally work something out. If we don't like the changes that we have made, we can always change them; the region isn't set in stone after changes are made.

Or, you know, it's a bad idea that keeps getting shot down, but its misguided aims means it just won't die already.

Reply

It is clear that we can't just do nothing anymore, eventually, the ministry will split. We have had this discussion several times since the Great Council ended in 2016. We should stop kicking the can down the road and finally work something out. If we don't like the changes that we have made, we can always change them; the region isn't set in stone after changes are made.

Yes. But change is done because we have to, not because we talked about it one time 4 years ago. 

I would argue we need to do this simply to make the Ministry manageable. Simply put: if we don't do this we will only see nominal improvement in MoRA, and there is little to no chance for the positive structural change that is needed to make MoRA a sustainable organization. There is no sustainability in a Ministry to large for a single minister to be able to adequately pay attention to and help where needed. There is simply too much for one person to reasonably be expected to supervise.

Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been
What's Next?

 

CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021

Reply

It is clear that we can't just do nothing anymore, eventually, the ministry will split. We have had this discussion several times since the Great Council ended in 2016. We should stop kicking the can down the road and finally work something out. If we don't like the changes that we have made, we can always change them; the region isn't set in stone after changes are made.

Yes. But change is done because we have to, not because we talked about it one time 4 years ago. 

I would argue we need to do this simply to make the Ministry manageable. Simply put: if we don't do this we will only see nominal improvement in MoRA, and there is little to no chance for the positive structural change that is needed to make MoRA a sustainable organization. There is no sustainability in a Ministry to large for a single minister to be able to adequately pay attention to and help where needed. There is simply too much for one person to reasonably be expected to supervise.

And I would argue that since you don’t participate in this ministry, you don’t have any right to sit here and say what should and shouldn’t be done. You are not part of this current ministry. You haven’t been part of this ministry if ever. We have a system and it’s working great. you don’t see behind the scenes because you’re not a part of it. Not to be rude but stick to what you know and let us stick to what we know. The answer from Me is a resounding no to the split and will continue to be so.

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There's a list somewhere if you wanna go looking. 

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And I would argue that since you don’t participate in this ministry, you don’t have any right to sit here and say what should and shouldn’t be done. You are not part of this current ministry. You haven’t been part of this ministry if ever. We have a system and it’s working great. you don’t see behind the scenes because you’re not a part of it. Not to be rude but stick to what you know and let us stick to what we know. The answer from Me is a resounding no to the split and will continue to be so.

Howdy Penguin. Let me go through this point by point:

"You don't have any right to sit here and say what should and shouldn't be done"
If the Ministry feels it is above oversight by its constituents, that is a problem. All the members of the Assembly have a right to critique any Ministry on any matter, and provide legislative instruments they feel will correct problems they feel they see. If this is a pervasive sentiment with the MoRA, that is a bigger problem.

"You are not part of this current ministry. You haven’t been part of this ministry if ever."
I was a fellow in the MoRA until just this month when I had to resign due to my commitments to Foreign Affairs. In the past, I was an active participant in our media department and helped organize numerous festivals. I am dismayed though that this work apparently means nothing.

"We have a system and it’s working great. you don’t see behind the scenes because you’re not a part of it."
If it is working so great why do I continue to hear complaints about how there aren't enough active people and fellows just aren't as good as they were back in the day? Also, as a member of the cabinet, I do see behind the scenes and quite frankly I am trying to help save the important activities of regional engagement and culture that are the cornerstone of any health region.

"Not to be rude but stick to what you know and let us stick to what we know."
Again, until this month I was an active fellow in RA. I still work with RA on major projects. I also have experience in media and festivals. I'm also a legislator which gives me the right to be critical of Ministries if I believe it is warranted. 

As I have said time and time again, this is not some kind of personal attack against the Ministry. This is an attempt to give some of our most talented people in this region an institution that is manageable and conducive to their success.

Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been
What's Next?

 

CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021

(This post was last modified: 04-27-2020, 12:09 PM by Omega.)

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This is a highly emotive issue, for some reason and I guess I understand. I found it emotive when I was MoRA. Now I'm looking at it more clinically and it just makes sense to me to create a more manageable set of ministry portfolios.

I wasn't involved in the discussions that created the set-up we have now, but I wonder what put all the disparate parts of the current ministry together?

It feels almost like it actually undervalues what we think of as RA since we made sure only one cabinet member was dedicated to it. This region essentially values Foreign Affairs and military action more than it values culture, media and integration since they should be similarly sized chunks of portfolio (indeed, I'd argue some of the split portfolio are still larger than the other two, when done well) but are given only one voice in cabinet. Putting all that under one minister - and one somewhat conservative subculture - feels like trying to sweep it all under the rug a little.

But hey, as I said, it's an unusually emotive topic and viewpoints are also unusually entrenched, so I'll try to leave this my last point on the issue.

Founder of the Church of the South Pacific [Forum Thread] [Discord], a safe place to discuss spirituality for people of all faiths and none (currently looking for those interested in prayer and/or "home" groups);
And The Silicon Pens [Discord], a writer's group for the South Pacific and beyond!

Yahweo usenneo ir varleo, ihraneo jurlaweo hraseu seu, ir jiweveo arladi.

Salma 145:8

translate

The LORD is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love.
Psalm 145: 8

Reply

I wasn't involved in the discussions that created the set-up we have now, but I wonder what put all the disparate parts of the current ministry together?

Just looking at the archives, we have had this setup since at least 2014.

Above all else, I hope to be a decent person.
Has Been
What's Next?

 

CoA: August 2016-January 2017
Minister of Foreign Affairs: October 2019-June 2020, October 2020- February 2021

(This post was last modified: 04-27-2020, 12:19 PM by Omega.)

Reply

I completely agree with Seraph here. This topic gets really emotive and none of it should be a personal attack on the ministry or those people who worked within it.

And, I've largely sat this fight out (so if I'm repeating or off topic feel free to ignore), but I do think it's important to note that the Ministry of Regional Affairs has evolved into what it is today. At no time did someone strategically sit down and say, "The Ministry of Regional Affairs should include integration, cultural events, media creation and (insert all other parts of the ministry here)." 

To go waaaay back, the Secretary of the Region was envisioned as the person tasked with keeping the offsite on the RMB integrated. Activity, by way of cultural events, came after.

And, the "media" in the region was originally an independent newspaper, and (I believe, but Kris can clarify) it got pulled into the ministry when the independent media failed.

Take all this for what its worth. As I've argued during the first round of this debate, I think smaller ministries would be more manageable and provide more opportunity for new nations.

But, it's also important to note that this wasn't designed as its currently set up and, if given the opportunity to start from scratch, I doubt we'd create it the same way. Again, to piggyback of Seraph's point, the unintentionality in which the ministry was created — or essentially thrust with everything that doesn't fit in FA or MA — does suggest a devaluation of the role it plays.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

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