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**Belschaft** · 08-26-2020, 03:54 PM

So, I’ve never really understood why people think we should have a secret ballot in TSP. I’ve always felt that as a small direct democracy individual accountability for how we vote is an important thing whilst the risk of voter intimidation is low.

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**Farengeto** · 08-26-2020, 04:24 PM

(08-26-2020, 03:54 PM)Belschaft Wrote: So, I’ve never really understood why people think we should have a secret ballot in TSP. I’ve always felt that as a small direct democracy individual accountability for how we vote is an important thing whilst the risk of voter intimidation is low.

My vote is my vote. Intimidation or not, I want to vote the way I want without worry of judgement or prejudice.

**Somyrion** · 08-26-2020, 04:32 PM

(08-26-2020, 04:24 PM)Farengeto Wrote: My vote is my vote. Intimidation or not, I want to vote the way I want without worry of judgement or prejudice.

Which is why we always allow private voting.

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***Tsunamy*** · 08-26-2020, 05:40 PM

While I appreciate the idea behind this, I kinda this it's a solution in search of a problem. We can vote privately, but we can also vote publicly.

Relatedly, what I'll add is that please think about what you're asking the EC to do. Recently as EC, I have taken to PM each private ballot voter and give them a number so they can verify their ballots were counted correctly. While this is an ideal, it's a tad time consuming for the 7-10 votes we normally get, I can't imagine something like that for 40 votes.

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(This post was last modified: 08-28-2020, 09:37 AM by Tsunamy.)

**USoVietnam** · 08-27-2020, 03:42 AM

The vote lemming argument does not hold as TSJ or SPINN can just pull a 538 and do polling and predictions which influence voters. I rather have the result itself rather than the media influences peoples’ choices.

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~~Whole India~~ · 08-27-2020, 04:46 AM

(08-27-2020, 03:42 AM)USoVietnam Wrote: The vote lemming argument does not hold as TSJ or SPINN can just pull a 538 and do polling and predictions which influence voters. I rather have the result itself rather than the media influences peoples’ choices.

After voting till results are released media can do exit polls Happywide

, anyways I support secret ballots as good option, but Belschaft also has some point, if someone is threaten to vote in a way or is asked why did you voted that way, he/she can go to HC.
So now I am starting to feel it superfluous, let's see I will abstain now as some part of mine supports and some part says its not required

(This post was last modified: 08-27-2020, 04:47 AM by Whole India.)

Qaweritoyu · 08-28-2020, 07:29 AM

(08-26-2020, 03:47 PM)North Prarie Wrote:
(08-25-2020, 10:09 PM)North Prarie Wrote: Maybe.

While hitting back against the lemming is good, this would probably reduce turnout, due to the fact that it's even more buttons to click and some people might not be comfortable with DMs (not sure who wouldn't be, but still.)
Also, the possibility of meddling is super real. While it's good for now due to numbered ballots, if someone's planning to meddle with the results then why would they put numbers on the ballots in the first place?

There's also the problem of the EC completely making up ballots.

I agree with Prarie here and I note it hasn't been directly answered. What proof will we have that the EC result is not rigged?

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***Kris Kringle*** · 08-28-2020, 08:42 AM

Is there reason to believe that an Election Commissioner has tampered with, or would tamper with, election data?

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~~Whole India~~ · 08-28-2020, 10:10 AM

(08-28-2020, 08:42 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Is there reason to believe that an Election Commissioner has tampered with, or would tamper with, election data?

Can't rule out the possibility

***Tsunamy*** · 08-28-2020, 11:00 AM

While I'm all for accountability, I do think the morphing of this discussion from "private voting" to "HoW dO wE kNoW tHe ElEcTiOn CoMmIsIon IsN't RiGgInG tHe ElEcTiOn?" a bit problematic. Especially because those who has been acting as election commissioners (a) didn't ask for this amendment, (b) have been arguing against the change, and © are among the most trusted members in the region.

Further, while I'm remiss to help this amendment along because I don't think this is especially needed and will be voting against it, the way would you fix this problem is to make sure there are multiple election commissioners.

At one point in the not distant past, we had three commissioners: two legislators and one forum administrator. The goal was to not allow one person all the power here. The problems became that (a) there's not much for two of the three people to do and (b) being on the commission precluded those members running for office. Ultimately, all the responsibility fell to one person which is why we moved to the current system.

Having a commission from CRS members might be doable atm given the amount of CRS members we have *and* — at the risk of putting my foot in the mouth — the amount of members who don't seem interesting in running for office again.

-tsunamy
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