| [FAILED] Amendment to the Charter and the Military Code (the Admiralty) |
(09-18-2021, 02:57 PM)Jay Coop Wrote:(09-18-2021, 02:10 PM)im_a_waffle1 Wrote: I motion to move this to a vote. Oh I didn't check the last edit time... i just checked the time of post lol "After he realizes this newfound power of his to override the hopes and dreams of republicans, he puts all of the united provinces under his control."
one time minister of culture ![[Image: rank_trainee.min.svg]](https://github.com/TheSouthPacific/tsp-graphics/raw/master/mod/spsf/150w/rank_trainee.min.svg){kind=icon} ![[Image: updates_lifetime_1.min.svg]](https://github.com/TheSouthPacific/tsp-graphics/raw/master/mod/spsf/150w/updates_lifetime_1.min.svg){kind=small} ![[Image: detags_lifetime_2.min.svg]](https://github.com/TheSouthPacific/tsp-graphics/raw/master/mod/spsf/150w/detags_lifetime_2.min.svg){kind=small}
I don't get why this is wanted and I don't like it very much. I don't have a coherent reason for this: reminds me too much of the British Navy while the current thing is more neutral, maybe? Reminds me of cringy British regions? Admiral seems kind of pompous? I'm just too familiar with the current ones? Either way I feel like it would be dumb to let this pass and then complain so I'll complain now and get it over with.
I don't mind Cadet (and maybe Sailor but idk just has such a different vibe to Soldier) but the rest is kinda ugh to me. I'd also feel weird seeing this get voted on with so little SPSF input - I want to see more opinions from people involved in the military pls, positive or negative 
(09-18-2021, 05:39 PM)Nakari Wrote: I don't get why this is wanted and I don't like it very much. I don't have a coherent reason for this: reminds me too much of the British Navy while the current thing is more neutral, maybe? Reminds me of cringy British regions? Admiral seems kind of pompous? I'm just too familiar with the current ones? Either way I feel like it would be dumb to let this pass and then complain so I'll complain now and get it over with.This has been discussed at some length on Discord (see Legislator Lounge) with members of the SPSF and the Minister has expressed general support.
Perhaps legislative discussion threads should be able to stand on their own, rather than be devoid of important context if one didn’t check chat logs.
Former Delegate of the South Pacific
Posts outside High Court venues should be taken as those of any other legislator. I do not participate in the regional server, but I am happy to talk through instant messaging or on the forum. Legal Resources: THE MATT-DUCK Law Archive | Mavenu Diplomatic Archive | Rules of the High Court | Case Submission System | Online Rulings Consultation System (09-19-2021, 01:30 AM)Kris Kringle Wrote: Perhaps legislative discussion threads should be able to stand on their own, rather than be devoid of important context if one didn’t check chat logs. I don’t disagree but such is the nature of our community these days that we engage in lengthy discussions on Discord that then translate in part to forum threads such as this. (09-18-2021, 10:45 PM)Amerion Wrote:(09-18-2021, 05:39 PM)Nakari Wrote: I don't get why this is wanted and I don't like it very much. I don't have a coherent reason for this: reminds me too much of the British Navy while the current thing is more neutral, maybe? Reminds me of cringy British regions? Admiral seems kind of pompous? I'm just too familiar with the current ones? Either way I feel like it would be dumb to let this pass and then complain so I'll complain now and get it over with.This has been discussed at some length on Discord (see Legislator Lounge) with members of the SPSF and the Minister has expressed general support. I see one additional SPSF member in favor there, I think...? Ah well, at least my protest has been noted.
So, principally, I don't care about the names, so long as they're good and do what they're supposed to do. The ones proposed, unfortunately, don't. The current SPSF rank names (Trainee, Soldier, Officer, Commander) were picked deliberately to be simple and so that somebody without a RL military background can easily ascertain how they relate to each other. With this new system, I don't know if "captain" or "commodore" is higher based on the name alone, given my lack of RL military experience.
Then, we really should avoid making theming a matter of law. We saw how bad that can go in Lazarus. ![[Image: XXPV74Y.png?1]](https://i.imgur.com/XXPV74Y.png?1)
(09-19-2021, 06:23 AM)Nakari Wrote: I see one additional SPSF member in favor there, I think...? I will repost my response to Nakari's concerns from our conversation in Discord. Ideally, I would post the entire exchange here, but I am unclear as to whether that is permissble within Assembly regulations given that the channel we discussed it in, the Legislators' Lounge, is a secure channel: The intent of this stylistic amendment is to bring the military in line with the general theme of the region. We are the South Pacific, a name that inspires visions of the ocean. We use palm trees, islands, waves, coconuts, etc. in our design. And so it makes sense that our military arm should have some connection to the nautical elements inherent in the identity of TSP. The term changes from the current uses of trainee, soldier, commander, and general to cadet, sailor, commodore, and admiral are all apparent in, I would think, every military force. It is just as widely used as the army ranks. (09-19-2021, 01:13 PM)Roavin Wrote: So, principally, I don't care about the names, so long as they're good and do what they're supposed to do. The ones proposed, unfortunately, don't. The current SPSF rank names (Trainee, Soldier, Officer, Commander) were picked deliberately to be simple and so that somebody without a RL military background can easily ascertain how they relate to each other. With this new system, I don't know if "captain" or "commodore" is higher based on the name alone, given my lack of RL military experience. Your point about the obvious hierarchy between Captain and Commodore is well-taken. I have changed Commodore to a rank that is more obviously placed higher than Captain, a Vice Admiral. I respectively disagree with the notion that this is applying a theme. To use the navy as a base for terminology is quite simply the same as using the army. I also disagree with the comparison to Lazarus. The changes in Lzarus were not merely changing names but the fundamental structure and organisation of the region; it involved reorientating how power was constructed in the region. Contrastingly, this amendment is substituting trainee for cadet. And I would further emphasise that arguments against a naval orientation in the SPSF overlook the glaring use of the Tsunami Force and the Tidal Force already widely applied in the SPSF; the icon of the trident as the symbol of the SPSF; and, to restate the earlier point, the general use of water elements in our region's overall design language. This change is logical, it is sensible, and it is simple.
A captain usually is the commanding officer of one ship.
A commodore is a title given to any officer who leads an assortment of more than one ship. It can be something as simple as a task-force. To complicate matters further, a captain is both a rank and a title; You can be in charge of a small boat and hold the rank of an ensign and if you are in charge of that boat or ship your title is captain. Or you can be an admiral in charge of an aircraft carrier and you are also a captain. A commodore is more of a title (and not always a rank).
Tisha
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