Users browsing this thread:

GI-Land · 06-04-2022, 09:58 AM

Just because it's being buried on the Discord server now, here are my new thoughts based on the current situation.
IRP I assume we have an emergency meeting called by GI-Land today (4 June 2022), in which we finally settle on the HQs, secretary general etc. That this might take a few more days OOC is clear to me, but just that we have a date fixed for the Wiki.

Now: Stoinia is already conducting more or less a CE mission in Spiras at the moment. It would be logical for me, that if we decide (we should from my pov, Gianlucian troops are already on their way awaiting commands) on a CE mission in Spiras under Stoinian command, that the 1st secretary general should be from Stoinia. Therefore Reizen may become our actual military HQ, which might also come in handy for the current situation in Spiras. Due to the timing being so critical, I'd propose voting on having a simple Yes/No-vote for these two things. Other options shall not be presented and voted upon.
For the other HQs and the logo we can take a little more time, if we want, or one of you - possibly Qwert - start a voting process for the current nominees for each HQ/logo.

As for common policy: In light of the current situations, Gianatla is not willing to compromise on the TPNW anymore. We expect and necessarily accept a reluctance from Sedunn and Frost to ratify the treaty they've signed, but urge to overthink their stances in the light of recent events, that clearly have shown, that in our world deterrence through nuclear weapons does not seem to work sufficiently. All other CE members, especially those, who want to join the CE in the future, shall have to ratify the treaty. Gianatla has no other demands and sees the acceptance of Sedunnic and Frost reluctance on the matter as enough of a compromise.

The Stoinians will want to bring in a resolution into the WF, which they can only do with our help, since they're not a member of the organisation. Gianatla promises to help make the resolution conformant with the WF's rules and then to pass the resolution.

As for the Snovian situation: Gianatla and Snolland appreciate Sedunn not escalating the situation further and asks the CE members to do the same. Nevertheless security measures will be taken to be prepared for a potential second round of attacks from the rogue Ryccian state.

Signed
Gianluca IV
Roleplayer (active in TSP since 2016)
TSPedia-Author
Head Bartender of the Lampshade Bar & Grill

Information about my roleplay
Pacifica GI-Land, Snolland (Hazelbrust), Guardian of the World Forum, IUFA-FWC/WFWC- and Pacivision Supervisor •
Aurora Markatt (Maura)

Maverick · 06-04-2022, 11:09 AM

Stoinia would put forth General Corina Noica, aside from experience in Spiras and Earamia in their civil wars, she's had a huge role in the joint exercise between Sallodesia and Stoinia. Maybe some joint military exercises with Sedunn as well, so she'd be perfect for the job. I read the previous comments and the bottom line is someone with experience in large international operations and I think she could fit the bill. It would also tie in well with what Gianni has already stated with Stoinia already spearheading military operations in Spiras and UKED.

As for the HQ in Reizen, I'm down. Other HQ's aren't a priority.

However, Stoinia would reaffirm the need to adhere to international law, but won't further push Frost on their actions against Spiras. Also, Stoinia will iterate again that a clear and shared mission goal is essential for a good cooperation. Thus wishing that drastic military actions taken by members (Frost ins Spiras and Snolland with Ryccian bases in Hazelbrust) be consulted with other CE member states first.

Pacifica: Myria, Sallodesia, Stoinia • A1-0: Stoinian Star Kingdom • Aurora: Kingdom of Threnebor

Imperial Frost Federation · 06-04-2022, 11:28 AM

Technically the Frost Empire is spearheading operations in Spiras, and have welcomed the Stoinian and other Entente intervention as part of its special military operation to oust the DFN in opening another front to pressure the DFN as well as provide logistical support for all friendly forces in Spiras. The Empire also didn't consult Entente since it view the entente as a defensive alliance and that Independent offensive operations wouldn't be included.

As for the first secretary, I don't mind it being Stoinian but I would push for a Sedunnic advisor as a second in command due to Sedunns experience with multilateral operations.

Just call me Frost

Roleplayer,
Former member of the Pool of Justices

King of the Hill

(This post was last modified: 06-04-2022, 11:34 AM by Imperial Frost Federation.)

Qwert · 06-04-2022, 11:42 AM

I believe both Sedunn and the Frost Empire (and technically Karnetvor) would have high-ranking personnel with even more experience (from joint campaigns in Reizen, Transsuneria and Tasternine for instance, and a strong tradition from the Great War), but Sedunn of course wouldn't have a problem with a Stoinian becoming secretary general, especially since Sedunn wants to avoid giving the CE an image of a Sedunn-run organisation. A secretary general however, isn't normally someone who commands forces, but rather someone that oversees political matters. A Sedunner could maybe be first chief of staff or similar for the joint command that shall be established too?

Sedunn would accept Reizen as HQ, provided that the Empire adheres to international law in its special military operation, and especially respects any decision by the legitimate government of Spiras.

There's very likely an embryo to a joint CE joint staff, noting that Sedunn, Stoinia and the Empire ought to have coordinated their operations against the nationalists in Spiras and on the seas. At least in order to not shoot at each other and so on. Sedunn's current involvement is primarily a response to the nationalist rebel naval campaigns, destroying equipment, infrastructure and other important targets that could support further aggression towards Sedunn and the international shipping lanes. Sedunn would seek a WF mandate rather than a full CE intervention at this time.

Regarding nukes, Sedunn would not support a policy demanding ratification of the TPNW before joining the CE, as it trusts the organisation's ability in letting only responsible nations join.

In conclusion for the most pressing matters: it's an Aye from Sedunn and Transsuneria on the main HQ in Reizen (with the condition mentioned above), and General Corina Noica as secretary-general.

Roleplayer
Manager of the TSP and A1-0 maps
Roleplay moderator

My roleplay nations

(This post was last modified: 06-04-2022, 11:46 AM by Qwert.)

Maverick · 06-04-2022, 11:49 AM

We can argue about semantics for hours. While Frost did initiate, I think the scope of the military operations are still somewhat different (actively liberate Spiras from Nationalists) and at a larger scale by the Stoinians (+-15.000 troops with support), though let's keep such discussions for Discord.

While the CE is as of yet a more defensive alliance, nations are still working closely and might work together in military operations. Hence if Frost explained the situation and fears over Spiras, some other nations (especially Stoinia) might have joined in or voiced their concerns as with the Ryccian bases in Hazelbrust and formulate a clear mission goal. Goal of this is to form a comprehensive military policy instead of doing damage control because this nation did that and the other also that. At least that would be the point the Stoinians would make at the meeting: a clear and extensive communication of member operations.

Edit: Concerning the nature of Secretary-General as someone who oversees political matters, maybe because of the pressing matters the two (Secretary-General and Chief of Staff) are combined for the time being until a solid command structure is in place?

Pacifica: Myria, Sallodesia, Stoinia • A1-0: Stoinian Star Kingdom • Aurora: Kingdom of Threnebor

(This post was last modified: 06-04-2022, 12:05 PM by Maverick.)

GI-Land · 06-05-2022, 06:36 AM

Just as a reminder, the Ryccian bases in Snolland never got into effect and Snolland has retracted from their plans. I do also believe though, that other CE members should be included, whenever a member makes security decisions, that could affect the CE as a whole, whether it's their image or a potential threat within the CE that makes it more likely for the mutual defence clause to get triggered.

As for the Sedunnic counter-argument against Gianatla's wishes: Of course, the CE has the ability to make good and responsible decisions as to who should join, however shouldn't we lay out, what makes a candidate responsible and a good addition? From Gianatla's pov one of those traits should be, that the nation is part of the TPNW, not just in name, also in action. As laid out, we tolerate with gritted teeth, that the opinion of the Empire and Sedunn cannot be swayed, but that shouldn't apply to new members. Okeease also consider, that we don't need new members in the Entente. Any addition should be a consensus of all current members.

If we can't get this organisation - apart from Sedunn and the Frost Empire - to join and ratify the TPNW and to add a clause, that enforces TPNW-ratification for all new members, Gianatla might/will ask for other, meaningful concessions from you.

Signed
Gianluca IV
Roleplayer (active in TSP since 2016)
TSPedia-Author
Head Bartender of the Lampshade Bar & Grill

Information about my roleplay
Pacifica GI-Land, Snolland (Hazelbrust), Guardian of the World Forum, IUFA-FWC/WFWC- and Pacivision Supervisor •
Aurora Markatt (Maura)

Qwert · 06-05-2022, 09:54 AM

Sedunn considers unilateral nuclear disarmament a huge risk, making "reasonable" nations vulnerable to nuclear bully nations like Ryccia or potential ones like Izaakia (or any new aggressive nation that might spawn at any time on the map).

Since there's the consensus clause, Sedunn will accept Gianatla blocking membership for non-TPNW compliant nations, in affect making it an unofficial requirement for joining.

Regarding the secretary general and supreme commander/chief of staff, I think it would be best keeping these offices separate. If there's a joint CE effort in Spiras, the supreme theatre commander could absolutely be a Stoinian. An alternative could be that the staff that coordinates everything in Spiras, which may be Stoinian-led currently, could function as the joint command of the CE until the real one is in place, but that might be an unnecessary burden on the staff.

Roleplayer
Manager of the TSP and A1-0 maps
Roleplay moderator

My roleplay nations

Imperial Frost Federation · 06-05-2022, 02:40 PM

The Frost Empire also believes that making unilateral nuclear disarmament a requirement to join the Entente could turn away potential "reasonable" member states because ofthe risk of being vulnerable to rogue states like Ryccia and potential aggressor states like Izaakia. That being said, perhaps a new member state could be persuaded to abandon their nuclear ambitions/arsenal.

Just call me Frost

Roleplayer,
Former member of the Pool of Justices

King of the Hill

Qwert · 06-23-2022, 05:40 PM

The current bid seems to be the following:

- HQ: Reizen (provided the Empire respects Spiras sovereignty)
- Nukes: new members must have signed and ratified the TPNW
- Flag: the design that Stoic is working on
- Secretary General: Corina Noica, a Stoinian
- Supreme Allied Commander: a Sedunner

Thoughts?

Roleplayer
Manager of the TSP and A1-0 maps
Roleplay moderator

My roleplay nations

Maverick · 06-24-2022, 09:02 AM

Sounds good, just want to clear just a final detail though. General Corina Noica is chosen to be Secretary-General whilst still being on active duty in Bareland and heads the Entente Forces there, correct?

OOC Note: Bareland should all be wrapped up within one IRL month so after that she'll be full-time Secretary-General I assume.

Pacifica: Myria, Sallodesia, Stoinia • A1-0: Stoinian Star Kingdom • Aurora: Kingdom of Threnebor