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***Tsunamy*** · 06-06-2014, 10:11 AM

Seriously guys? Are you done using the admin team as the regional pinata?

SB DM and GE -- if you don't like the law -- change it. Citizenship status has zip to do with administration duties and you all are showing incredible ignorance by even bringing this up in this thread.

Quote:Article 1 of the Charter

Section 2 - Acceptance and Removal
1. Citizenship applications will be reviewed by the Vice Delegate.
2. Upon review the applicant may be either conditionally approved or denied by the Vice Delegate.
3. Upon the applicant being conditionally approved the forum administration staff will conduct a security check to ensure the applicant is not using a proxy, is not trying to avoid a forum ban, and is not a citizen using a different nation. In the event that an applicant is found to be using a proxy, attempting to avoid a forum ban, or applying for citizenship on multiple nations their application will be denied and not subject to appeal.
4. In the event that an applicant is denied the reason for denial must be disclosed by the Vice Delegate. The applicant may appeal their denial to the Assembly which may reverse the denial by a 75% majority vote in favor.
5. If a Citizen no longer has a resident nation their citizenship will be immediately removed by the Vice Delegate.
6. Citizenship may be removed by a majority vote of the Cabinet if a nation is found to be a security threat. Citizens removed for being a security threat may appeal to the Assembly which may reverse the removal by a 75% majority vote in favor.
7. Citizenship will be removed if a nation has not logged into the South Pacific forums for more than 30 days and made two posts within that period.
8. Citizens may request a leave of absence from the Vice Delegate.
9. If the Vice Delegate position is vacant, the Cabinet may designate a member to perform the above duties.

The fact that two members of the CSS and a member of the Court do not understand who/what regulates citizenship is beyond pathetic and speaks to larger problems in the region.

Currently, there's a discussion for legislating admin policy. However, apparently, the admin team are the bad guys for following the law. In this situation, the admin team literally can't win.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

**Belschaft** · 06-06-2014, 03:03 PM

It's not a question of winning or losing Tsu, but of doing what is right for the region. The policy in question is incredibly bad and should never been implemented. I don't blame you or Kris for that - you both were given very bad advice by Glen.

The reason why this has moved to the Assembly is because there is every sign that the admin team intends to stubbornly stick to this policy, even though it's quite apparent that it's untenable. As I've said before, the admin team has to be responsive to the community. When you get a huge majority of those commenting opposed to something, you have to consider if it was a good idea or not. You absolutely have to try to address their concerns. You don't dig yourself into a hole. And you absolutely don't do what Glen did, and repeatedly insult and dismiss everyone who's voiced concerns.

_{Minister of Media, Subversion and Sandwich Making}
^{Associate Justice of the High Court and Senior Moderator}

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***sandaoguo*** · 06-06-2014, 05:08 PM

(06-05-2014, 11:37 AM)southern bellz Wrote: Also, michu, a member of this community for years got her citizenship revoked, this region has lost it's mind.

I don't know where this government mentality of 'what have the citizens done for me lately' has come from, but it's a terrible mentality to have.

Policies that try to force activity have been creating barriers to activity.

To expand on Tsunamy's post above, Michu had her citizenship removed because the last time she posted was 04/15/14 04:23 AM. The law requires that citizens log on and post at least twice every 30 days, otherwise they are eligible to be removed when the Administration Team next does an activity check. The law doesn't exclude legacy citizens.

(This post was last modified: 06-06-2014, 05:09 PM by Tsunamy.)

God-Emperor · 06-06-2014, 07:05 PM

Well, I think that part of the law is worth changin', but there isn't a whole lot that can be done 'bout that now.

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

Hileville · 06-06-2014, 08:31 PM

Did the Vice Delegate sign off on these removals?

***sandaoguo*** · 06-06-2014, 08:40 PM

(06-06-2014, 08:31 PM)Dennrick Wrote: Did the Vice Delegate sign off on these removals?

The Charter doesn't require the Vice Delegate to play any role in activity checks.

Drugged Monkeys · 06-06-2014, 10:07 PM

Sorry, make this my SECOND post to fulfill my obligation.

I had no intention of bashing or "using the admin team as the regional piñata". I only meant to voice my opinion, as is my right. No personal attacks whatsoever were made by me. If you assume my comments are directed toward you that is not my problem. I speak my mind.

What happened to when we use to warn citizens well in advance that their citizenship was in jeopardy ? I mean have we always had this silly 2 posts in 30 days rule? I don't mean for that to sound like a dumb question, I'm just not aware. If we implemented it recently then maybe people do not realize they are now being held to a different standard then the one they originally signed up to.

Semi-Unretired

God-Emperor · 06-06-2014, 11:56 PM

I dunno if that's the case, considerin' I wasn't one of those people, but I wouldn't be surprised. When I had my citizenship revoked, I received at least one PM warnin' me that it was gonna be revoked, but I dunno if that happened this time 'round.

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific

***Tsunamy*** · 06-07-2014, 08:28 AM

To a couple points here guys -- to Bels, I didn't mean to suggest there a "winner and loser" in a winner-take-all fashion. But, we can't pass laws and then criticize the admin team for following them. To use another homespun phrase -- we're damned if we do and damned if we don't.

I agree that the activity requirements are silly. I don't like them and had I been active when they were proposed, I would've argued against it. If we want to take that out of the law -- please do, but I don't appreciate SB and DM coming out swinging toward the admins because we're following the law.

To DM/GE's point -- I don't think we should we responsible to run around PMing people because they aren't following the law. Considering you can regain your citizenship with a post -- it's silly to take umbrage with this. Moreover, I have better things to do with my life than make sure someone is following the law.

Finally, I think the admin team has been trying to find something that acceptable to the region. I've been -- and continue to be -- of the mindset that the region should have a strong hand in the administration of the forum. However, I've been told I'd politicize the process.

So, I'm just not sure what we want here. It really seems like no matter what the admin team does at the present, someone is going to criticize it.

-tsunamy
[forum admin]

God-Emperor · 06-07-2014, 08:26 PM

No, I don't think so. If the admin team said they'd suspend the 'prunin'' policy a week ago, this wouldn't have made it past page one.

The Third Imperium
Journalist, South Pacific Independent News Network (SPINN)
Provost, Magisterium
Sergeant, East Pacific Sovereign Army
Journalist, East Pacific News Service
Foreign Affairs Minister, The West Pacific