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**Belschaft** · 07-06-2018, 05:15 AM

I’ve yet to see anyone make the case for why “office hopping” is a bad thing, or exactly what is “unfair” about the current system/fairer about the proposed system.

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**Amerion** · 07-06-2018, 05:20 AM

Unless we define what constitutes a large and influential region with specific parameters, we will in all likelihood still be looking at a High Court ruling in the future.

With that being said, I am yet to see the merit of regulating 'office-hopping', let alone limiting the political activities of TSPers to within the confines of this region.

Considering that the debate originated from Rebel's quagmire regarding the elections of both the Chair and the Delegacy, would it not be more logical to focus on that particular issue rather than to legislate on 'office-hoping'? And if it is indeed so, then I suggest that Rebel's proposal would suffice in closing such a loophole.

***Roavin*** · 07-06-2018, 06:28 AM

I like the principle of Rebel's suggestion, though I think it can probably be worded simpler to simply state that it's not allowed to simultaneously run for multiple offices.

On Bzern's draft, let me address the changes in order:

On (1): Associate Justices are not firewalled by design, and therefore shouldn't be listed here.
On (2): Not sure why the change of wording is needed, and I actually prefer the old version!
On (3): Disagreed for the reasons others have expressed previously (though I do like your wording in principle)
On (4): See (3)
On (5): Disagreed for the reasons others have expressed previously

Regarding (5), what we could do is reconsider "equivalent". It was meant to be deliberately soft, though it's unenforcable (and in fact the Court, under then-PJ Farengeto, ruled questions on it non-justiciable). My preferred solution to this would be to remove that restriction entirely and make truthful CoI declarations that must be part of a candidate's campaign thread mandatory instead.

***Kris Kringle*** · 07-06-2018, 08:00 AM

(07-06-2018, 01:23 AM)palaisbellevuebz Wrote: It will not be difficult for the Election Commission to coordinate elections after this amendment has been passed and I am sure that it will happen in a very uniform and proper way.

Hahaha. Good one.

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**Rebeltopia** · 07-06-2018, 10:21 AM

(07-06-2018, 06:28 AM)Roavin Wrote: I like the principle of Rebel's suggestion, though I think it can probably be worded simpler to simply state that it's not allowed to simultaneously run for multiple offices.

I thought I put it pretty succinctly... you can't run for another position while currently campaigning or while a vote is taking place that you're apart of.

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Bzerneleg · 07-06-2018, 11:21 PM

Quote:7. Separation of Powers

(1) Offices of the Coalition are the Delegate, the Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers, the Chair of the Assembly, Local Councillors, the Permanent Justices Chief Justice of the High Court, and any of their appointed deputies.

(2) It is not permitted for any individual to hold more than one office within the Coalition's governmentOffice of the Coalition.

(3) It is not permitted to run for an office while also running for another, or during an election for which one is currently a candidate.

(4) Persons holding Offices of the Coalition shall, during the election of which they are running, their deputy shall execute the powers and duties of their office, and they shall resume the powers and duties of their office only after their election has ended or when they withdraw from the election.

(5) Election or appointment to a new office constitutes explicit resignation of an existing office.

(6) No person holding a Cabinet office or the office of the Delegate may hold any equivalent office in a foreign region or organisation.

This is a new version of the Bzern-Islands Amendment to Ensure the Efficient Execution of Offices.

I want to clarify that Section 4 is not there to regulate office-hopping, it is there to ensure that when an Officer of the Coalition is running for whatever office they may choose, their office is still properly functioning. When they're running, they delegate their powers and duties to their deputy, thus their deputy becomes the acting holder of their office. And when the election's finished or when they're out of the election, they will resume the powers and duties of their office and everything's normal again.

For Section 6, after taking in Roavin's recommendation and some consideration, I have decided to repeal section 6. What we could have instead is as Roavin said, truthful CoI disclosures that must be part of a candidate's campaign thread mandatory instead and I would recommend implementing punishments if a CoI disclosure is found to be incorrect and untruthful.

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(This post was last modified: 07-07-2018, 04:25 AM by Bzerneleg.)

**Seraph** · 07-07-2018, 01:51 AM

(07-06-2018, 11:21 PM)palaisbellevuebz Wrote:
Quote:7. Separation of Powers

(1) Offices of the Coalition are the Delegate, the Prime Minister and Cabinet Ministers, the Chair of the Assembly, Local Councillors, the Permanent Justices Chief Justice of the High Court, and any of their appointed deputies.

(2) It is not permitted for any individual to hold more than one office within the Coalition's governmentOffice of the Coalition.

(3) It is not permitted to run for an office while also running for another, or during an election for which one is currently a candidate.(4) Persons holding Offices of the Coalition shall, during the election of which they are running, their deputy shall execute the powers and duties of their office, and they shall resume the powers and duties of their office only after their election has ended or when they withdraw from the election.

(5) Election or appointment to a new office constitutes explicit resignation of an existing office.

(6) No person holding a Cabinet office or the office of the Delegate may hold any equivalent office in a foreign region or organisation.

This is a new version of the Bzern-Islands Amendment to Ensure the Efficient Execution of Offices.

I want to clarify that Section 4 is not there to regulate office-hopping, it is there to ensure that when an Officer of the Coalition is running for whatever office they may choose, their office is still properly functioning. When they're running, they delegate their powers and duties to their deputy, thus their deputy becomes the acting holder of their office. And when the election's finished or when they're out of the election, they will resume the powers and duties of their office and everything's normal again.

For Section 6, after taking in Roavin's recommendation and some consideration, I have decided to repeal section 6. What we could have instead is as Roavin said, truthful CoI disclosures that must be part of a candidate's campaign thread mandatory instead and I would recommend implementing punishments if a CoI disclosure is found to be incorrect and untruthful.

This is a big improvement, although article 4 is a bit of a typographical train wreck. You might want to proofread it again.

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**Belschaft** · 07-07-2018, 04:50 AM

Can you give examples of times that someone seeking election has led to serious neglect of their current office?

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Bzerneleg · 07-07-2018, 05:07 AM

(07-07-2018, 04:50 AM)Belschaft Wrote: Can you give examples of times that someone seeking election has led to serious neglect of their current office?

I can not give you examples of times that someone seeking election has led to serious neglect of their current office, what I can give you however is my assurance that no matter if the incumbent's running for election, offices are going to be properly and efficiently executed. What people are going to benefit from Section 3 is, for incumbents who are seeking election, more time to focus on their campaign and we will eventually have better quality campaigns and people who come up with better platforms, while at the same time their office is being properly executed by their deputy and when the election's over or when they choose to withdraw, they will resume the powers and duties of their office. So I would say that it's a win-win amendment for everyone.

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(This post was last modified: 07-07-2018, 05:08 AM by Bzerneleg.)

**Belschaft** · 07-07-2018, 05:12 AM

What if there isn't a deputy?

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